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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dolfan" data-source="post: 4834046" data-attributes="member: 57219">Although I read the forums so often, I rarely find a reason that I need to log in and toss my opinion in, but this seems to be one of those times. Evilbob, I get that what you're complaining about is a far wider reaching issue that you're having with 4th edition than just with bloodclaw weapons, but that bloodclaw weapons are symptomatic of the entire issue... I hear that, and I agree to a certain extent, but I also disagree in other ways.  In 3.5, which you mentioned earlier, I had to alter entire campaigns to accomodate spells like glitterdust and fireballs with a string of metamagic feats applied.  They were incredibly game breaking for what I had planned, but because players had developed their characters around the use of these things, and because I knew that if I banned them the players would just find other ways to break things, I left them alone.  I think that's probably a little of what's going on with your group and 4e.  I actually think your group and mine are likely quite a bit alike... a desire to roleplay, but also an ability to find that upper end of the power spectrum and make sure that every last character they make is getting the most out of their abilities, items, etc.  When you do that, you're bound to find out what's broken with just about everything.  That being said, I'll give you a couple tips (even though I'm not sure you're looking for them) that I'm incorporating into my new campaign.  First, rather than go through and ban individual items, I've limited access to the Enchant Item ritual and the ability to purchase items.  Since nobody has chosen to play an artificer, nobody will have the ability to enchant items, but should they choose to in the future, I will work with the players to ensure that the item combinations they are coming up with fit within the bounds of what is reasonable.  For the items they find, I'm getting wish lists and am already working with them on why I think certain items may or may not be good for them.  Since bloodclaw was the example, I will say this -- I have an avenger that has asked for a bloodclaw and while I'm currently planning on giving it to him, I'd be lying if I said it didn't make me nervous.  This has nothing to do with the item, but with the player.  I know from playing a Warden with a bunch of area effect attacks and a bloodclaw weapon just how devastating it can be... both to the enemy and to me.  If I catch 4 guys in my burst with the weapon, that's 12 damage to me right there.  Do that a few rounds in a row and it doesn't matter if the enemy has been hitting me or not.  If I were a rogue or someone else with very few HPs and surges... well... I don't think I'd be inclined to risk it.  Going back to a more general view -- I don't know that quitting 4e and moving to another RPG is going to fix the answer for you.  The only solution is to fix the players so that they can understand that the goal here isn't to "win D&D".  I learned that steamrolling encounters is actually less fun than being challenged a while ago, so I don't bother trying to create the ultimate destruction machine anymore, and I'm having a much better time.</blockquote>

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