Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What do you do when your players are gunshy?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6788892" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya!</p><p></p><p> Ok, @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6790260" target="_blank">EzekielRaiden</a></u></strong></em>, I can see your point of view on the matter.</p><p></p><p>However, I don't think the whole "they just don't know" contention you have is the problem. I believe the OP's players have the experience, as you do, but I also believe they know how much 'work' goes into a good campaign. A 'bad' campaign is easy; a bunch of people get together, roll dice, and each game session is like a mish-mash of various TV shows with no central thematic element, no ongoing stories, and generally no lasting point. They can be fun...that's a given...but also almost totally unmemorable.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I don't think the OP 'explaining' how much work goes into a campaign is going to matter. He should "humble" himself before them in an attempt to let them be more honest and open; if they see he has "realized his mistake" (even if he didn't make one), and wants to make amends so that it doesn't happen again, then his players may adopt a more "nurturing, suggestive tone". As soon as someone who has 'hurt' others (re: the players) tries to justify his actions, the 'victims' (re: players) will feel even more attacked. The DM (re: GMforPowerGamers) needs to take a demure posture and give them (re: players) the 'upper hand' in the conversation. As long as GMfPG is able to keep his cool and just accept their position at face value...the group will have a chance.</p><p></p><p>I once had an almost similar situation. I was DM'ing a pretty hard-core 1e campaign...a <em>Temple of Elemental Evil</em> campaign. PC's were dropping like flies...everyone had at least a few dead PC's before even hitting 4th level (not too surprising, as it was 1e). But, after almost a year of playing it, each player had a half-dozen or more dead PC's, easy. It was brutal. One day, after a few PC's died at once, the players "revolted" and refused to make new PC's for it because "what's the point, we're going to die anyway...". We had a short talk, and I put myself in the "submissive" posture in the conversation, allowing them to control where it was going so they could really get off their chest what they were unhappy about (other than simple PC death). Turns out they felt it was kinda pointless because none of the PC's were there at the beginning, so there was no real continuity. Their PC's had no real connection to the other PC's, and they all felt like individuals adventuring alone, in stead of friends/comrades adventuring with an Adventuring Party. I believe if I had taken the "you guys just don't understand" stance, things would have turned out quite a bit different.</p><p></p><p>Anyway...I see your point, @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6790260" target="_blank">EzekielRaiden</a></u></strong></em>, but your suggestion to "try and explain why" isn't the way to go. If a serious, adult conversation is going to go on, I'd suggest the opposite. Take the "I'm but a child, please help me get better" approach so that the players are the "adults with knowledge and wisdom to impart". This will let them lower their mental defenses and give them 'permission' to be honest and critical. Everyone likes to help others...nobody likes to lectured on why their feelings of betrayal (re: the whole "rug pulled out from under us" thing the one player who posted here mentioned, IIRC) are "wrong" and why the lecturer was "right" (re: "I'm the DM, it's hard, and here's why I think what I did was right/good").</p><p></p><p>In short, to the OP, if you feel a serious sit-down is required: ...don't explain...listen.</p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 6788892, member: 45197"] Hiya! Ok, @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6790260"]EzekielRaiden[/URL][/U][/B][/I], I can see your point of view on the matter. However, I don't think the whole "they just don't know" contention you have is the problem. I believe the OP's players have the experience, as you do, but I also believe they know how much 'work' goes into a good campaign. A 'bad' campaign is easy; a bunch of people get together, roll dice, and each game session is like a mish-mash of various TV shows with no central thematic element, no ongoing stories, and generally no lasting point. They can be fun...that's a given...but also almost totally unmemorable. Anyway, I don't think the OP 'explaining' how much work goes into a campaign is going to matter. He should "humble" himself before them in an attempt to let them be more honest and open; if they see he has "realized his mistake" (even if he didn't make one), and wants to make amends so that it doesn't happen again, then his players may adopt a more "nurturing, suggestive tone". As soon as someone who has 'hurt' others (re: the players) tries to justify his actions, the 'victims' (re: players) will feel even more attacked. The DM (re: GMforPowerGamers) needs to take a demure posture and give them (re: players) the 'upper hand' in the conversation. As long as GMfPG is able to keep his cool and just accept their position at face value...the group will have a chance. I once had an almost similar situation. I was DM'ing a pretty hard-core 1e campaign...a [I]Temple of Elemental Evil[/I] campaign. PC's were dropping like flies...everyone had at least a few dead PC's before even hitting 4th level (not too surprising, as it was 1e). But, after almost a year of playing it, each player had a half-dozen or more dead PC's, easy. It was brutal. One day, after a few PC's died at once, the players "revolted" and refused to make new PC's for it because "what's the point, we're going to die anyway...". We had a short talk, and I put myself in the "submissive" posture in the conversation, allowing them to control where it was going so they could really get off their chest what they were unhappy about (other than simple PC death). Turns out they felt it was kinda pointless because none of the PC's were there at the beginning, so there was no real continuity. Their PC's had no real connection to the other PC's, and they all felt like individuals adventuring alone, in stead of friends/comrades adventuring with an Adventuring Party. I believe if I had taken the "you guys just don't understand" stance, things would have turned out quite a bit different. Anyway...I see your point, @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6790260"]EzekielRaiden[/URL][/U][/B][/I], but your suggestion to "try and explain why" isn't the way to go. If a serious, adult conversation is going to go on, I'd suggest the opposite. Take the "I'm but a child, please help me get better" approach so that the players are the "adults with knowledge and wisdom to impart". This will let them lower their mental defenses and give them 'permission' to be honest and critical. Everyone likes to help others...nobody likes to lectured on why their feelings of betrayal (re: the whole "rug pulled out from under us" thing the one player who posted here mentioned, IIRC) are "wrong" and why the lecturer was "right" (re: "I'm the DM, it's hard, and here's why I think what I did was right/good"). In short, to the OP, if you feel a serious sit-down is required: ...don't explain...listen. ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What do you do when your players are gunshy?
Top