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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4726205" data-attributes="member: 48965">I don't know about this one, I've seen the argument that there are fighter builds that out strike the Warlock and Rogue in pure damage capability.&nbsp; Also as more classes come out it does seem as if more overlap is almost inevitable, and finally unless strict balance is always maintained... classes in the same role may have varying levels of effectiveness...like the Invoker who is held up as an example of a better &quot;controller&quot; than the Wizard.But if you can build an encounter that favors certain roles... doesn't this fall in favor of the spotlight being just as dependent upon the DM as any earlier edition?And here I totally disagree, much as people claim that niches are preserved in 4e, I think it's easy for a character to step on another's toes if their niche isn't based in combat.&nbsp; A Ranger can easily out thief a Rogue... in fact as long as a class has an attribute focus that coincides with the attribute for the skill(s), it's trivial to spend a feat and usurp a skill-based role in 4e especially with Backgrounds, skill focus, skill training etc. being optional ways to surpass another PC.Yeah, I'm just not seeing this conclusion at all... spotlight balance, especially with skill challenges and the ease with which one can raise skills (which may or may not conceptually have anything to do with your niche) to high levels, IMO, do much to disprove this conclusion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 4726205, member: 48965"] I don't know about this one, I've seen the argument that there are fighter builds that out strike the Warlock and Rogue in pure damage capability. Also as more classes come out it does seem as if more overlap is almost inevitable, and finally unless strict balance is always maintained... classes in the same role may have varying levels of effectiveness...like the Invoker who is held up as an example of a better "controller" than the Wizard. But if you can build an encounter that favors certain roles... doesn't this fall in favor of the spotlight being just as dependent upon the DM as any earlier edition? And here I totally disagree, much as people claim that niches are preserved in 4e, I think it's easy for a character to step on another's toes if their niche isn't based in combat. A Ranger can easily out thief a Rogue... in fact as long as a class has an attribute focus that coincides with the attribute for the skill(s), it's trivial to spend a feat and usurp a skill-based role in 4e especially with Backgrounds, skill focus, skill training etc. being optional ways to surpass another PC. Yeah, I'm just not seeing this conclusion at all... spotlight balance, especially with skill challenges and the ease with which one can raise skills (which may or may not conceptually have anything to do with your niche) to high levels, IMO, do much to disprove this conclusion. [/QUOTE]

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