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<blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 1491111" data-attributes="member: 9002">To be fair, let's not use Neanderthals, ok?&nbsp; How about &quot;primitive human?&quot;Do you not see the spuriousness of your own argument, which you have poked holes in yourself?If you can teach the primitive how the conventional oven works (turn here, gets hot here, fire there) high-tech moves from inexplicable to explicable in a few days.Now, wow!&nbsp; Teach the primitive how to use the microwave oven, and also describe over the course of a few years the theory of its working.&nbsp; Inexplicable to explicable in a longer period of time, but not that long.&nbsp; He'll probably be popping popcorn within a week.Are you just saying that the microwave &quot;seems&quot; magical, as in &quot;gee whiz wow!&quot; to the primitive for a few hours until he learns how to use it - learns it's just another machine, like the conventional oven, simply more esoteric?&nbsp; I won't argue that.&nbsp; Anything can look magical for a while -- even first love, eh?&nbsp; But some things, like microwave ovens, can be explained -- unlike first love, eh? Technology can ALWAYS be explained -- unlike, for example, that fetish you have, eh?&quot;Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology&quot; -- what the hell is that supposed to mean?&nbsp; They are fundamentally different processes, unless you are talking about a system of &quot;magic&quot; that is repeatable, explicable, testable, and teachable.&nbsp; In which case it's not indistinguishable from technology, it is (in fact) technology itself.&nbsp; Same rules, same laws, same.&nbsp; Just another name for the same thing (&quot;this wand of magic missiles uses a trigger mechanism striking this powder which explodes...&quot;).&nbsp; i.e. Clarke spouts a circular truism.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="two, post: 1491111, member: 9002"] To be fair, let's not use Neanderthals, ok? How about "primitive human?" Do you not see the spuriousness of your own argument, which you have poked holes in yourself? If you can teach the primitive how the conventional oven works (turn here, gets hot here, fire there) high-tech moves from inexplicable to explicable in a few days. Now, wow! Teach the primitive how to use the microwave oven, and also describe over the course of a few years the theory of its working. Inexplicable to explicable in a longer period of time, but not that long. He'll probably be popping popcorn within a week. Are you just saying that the microwave "seems" magical, as in "gee whiz wow!" to the primitive for a few hours until he learns how to use it - learns it's just another machine, like the conventional oven, simply more esoteric? I won't argue that. Anything can look magical for a while -- even first love, eh? But some things, like microwave ovens, can be explained -- unlike first love, eh? Technology can ALWAYS be explained -- unlike, for example, that fetish you have, eh? "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology" -- what the hell is that supposed to mean? They are fundamentally different processes, unless you are talking about a system of "magic" that is repeatable, explicable, testable, and teachable. In which case it's not indistinguishable from technology, it is (in fact) technology itself. Same rules, same laws, same. Just another name for the same thing ("this wand of magic missiles uses a trigger mechanism striking this powder which explodes..."). i.e. Clarke spouts a circular truism. [/QUOTE]

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