What do you make of this party's composition?

[darkbard]

Howdy, folks. I've recently begun a long-anticipated Ptolus campaign that will feature the adventures from the Big Book, the Night of Dissolution, and the Banewarrens, plus a few supplements and side treks along the way. For those without much knowledge about the preceding, the campaign is set entirely in a major city and features dungeon delving beneath the city, fighting evil cultists, and lots of layered political machination by powerful rival or enemy groups. The composition of the party:

NG male Half-orc Urban Ranger (Unearthed Arcana) specializing in the light crossbow and axe and board fighting styles, plus "scout" type skills.

N female Elf Cleric of The Lady (Luck, Trickery domains) concerned with luck, fate, long shots and last chances.

CN female Tiefling Rogue two-weapon fighter, acrobatic and focused largely on physical skills.

N male Air Genasi Bard, the primary arcane caster and party leader. His spellcasting will become much more effective when he reaches high mid-levels and qualifies for the Sublime Chord (CA) prestige class. First feat is Soul of the North from CA, granting a few minor (2 cantrips, 1 1st level) cold-based offensive spells usable once per day.

Monte's adventures are notoriously challenging. This party lacks a true arcane caster, though the bard's racial and initial feat choice mitigate this somewhat for the first level or two. The party also lacks a dominating melee combatant, though the rogue and cleric have good physical ability scores that make them slightly more effective at low levels than may be obvious at first glance. Certainly, the party will truly excel in the many social elements of a campaign set in an urban center (bluff, diplomacy, knowledge and planning, etc.). However, I wonder about their ability to stand up to a straight-up melee. Clearly, their strengh lies in avoiding such encounters as much as possible, but doing so will not always be the case.

What do you think of this party's chances of long-term survival? I realize it's hardly a tragically flawed party, but I am curious about other people's take on how some of its weaknesses may play out in the long run. Thanks!

 

[Baron Opal]

Given that they're in Ptolus I think they have a good adventuring lifespan. They are a "skirmisher" style of party, however. You have a stealthy fighter, a cleric with rogue-like domains, a rogue and a rogue-like magician (bard). If they approach a situation head-on it will be more difficult.

Do bards still get lightning bolt? It's been a long time since I played one. That spell can make up for a multitude of sins.

 

[Nifft]

Stealth + Social Skills = excellent excuse to ignore the wealth-by-level guidelines. They should be allowed to (ab)use their skills to get more magical loot than normal.

Cheers, -- N

 

[darkbard]

Are there paricular tactics or tactical choices (like feat choice, etc.) that people think would help "round out" this group? The ranger, for example, has taken undead as his first favored enemy (due to background), which should bolster the group's fighting prowess against undead. The bard is maxing out Use magic device.

What about spell choices? Feats down the road as they gain levels? Particular magic items to counter foes that expose the group's weaknesses?

 

[Ender_rpm]

Expeditous retreat, mass? They should be fine, it looks like my first 3rd Ed party, and we played them in a high adventure game for a year.

 

[Ry]

If I were in this party I would be getting a barbarian cohort or hireling as soon as I could.

Then I'd replace him.

Then I'd replace him again.

An argument over alignment would probably ensue.

 

[Remathilis]

Basher: Check. You have a half-orc combatant, a standard cleric, and a SA rogue. You can deal enough damage.
Tank: The cleric can tank if she goes that route (full-plate, sheild, buffs) but that takes her out of the healing roll.
Blaster: If the bard goes this route, there are a few good attack spells in Spell Compendium. The Cleric will get a few as well (though at high-high levels).
Stealth: You got this in spades. USE IT!
Social: Good as well. Use it.
Buffer: The bard and the cleric will have some great buffing magic and abilities (divine feats + bard songs).

REMATHILIS's SUGGESTIONS.

Half-Orc Ranger. Pick something extremely useful for your FE (outsiders, undead, or humans never get old). Get a good animal companion and make sure you memorize spells like barkskin to augment your AC.

Human Cleric: Mithril plate ASAP. Look into Sacred Healing (C.Divine) and other Divine/Turning Feats, as well as Luck feats (and PrC) from C.Scoundrel.

Air-Genasi Bard: Get as many sonic/damage dealing spells (or debilitating spells, like unluck or hideous laughter). IF you can't kill, de-buff. Consider Lyric Thaumaturgist from C. Mage as well (like Sublime Chord, but earlier to get into and dove-tails with bard better).

Tiefling Cleric. Look into ambush feats to inflict nasty status on foes and TELLING BLOW for more options to roll handfuls of d6s. Consider Thief-Acrobat or Nightsong Enforcer as well.

 

[Nifft]

Are there paricular tactics or tactical choices (like feat choice, etc.) that people think would help "round out" this group? The ranger, for example, has taken undead as his first favored enemy (due to background), which should bolster the group's fighting prowess against undead. The bard is maxing out Use magic device.

What about spell choices? Feats down the road as they gain levels? Particular magic items to counter foes that expose the group's weaknesses?

The feats they should be considering are Leadership, Leadership, Leadership and Leadership. Especially the Bard, but really, the more people they have, the better their buffs will be.

The Ranger should consider Natural Bond to boost his Animal Companion up to more like what a Druid would gain. He should also consider the Beastmaster prestige class (because the more friendly critters you have being affected by the Bard's Inspire Courage, the better).

The Bard should trade in his crappy 1/day spell-like ability feat. (Those feats are for NPCs, mang.) He should take Skill Focus (UMD) instead, and get some Wands to unleash icy death on his foes.

Is ToB:Bo9S available? One level of Warblade would be good for that Bard, if it won't provoke multi-class XP penalties. He should take a White Raven stance and as many White Raven maneuvers as possible, and of course the feat Song of the White Raven. More levels of Warblade wouldn't be bad, but space them out a bit. Four is fairly optimal.

What level is the adventure going to end? If the adventure ends before or around 16th level, the party may be better off with a Chameleon than a Bard / Sublime Chord. Let the bard guy know if this is an option; he may want to rebuild his PC around Chameleon. There are a number of excellent "prefixes" to this prestige class; Bard levels are included in many of them, so if he's 4th level or under, he may qualify with only minimal reworking.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Ry]

The Bard should trade in his crappy 1/day spell-like ability feat. (Those feats are for NPCs, mang.) He should take Skill Focus (UMD) instead, and get some Wands to unleash icy death on his foes.

Very good advice. Your guys will be able to acquire a LOT of items if they're smart, and using them will be key to their capabilities (especially in terms of bard-making-up-for-lack-of-wizard).

 

[darkbard]

The characters are still all first level and have really only faced a few encounters thus far. When you suggest swapping out Soul of the North for Skill focus (UMD), do you suggest retrofitting the character now or allowing a "retraining" type switcheroo at a level gain (like, say, at 3rd level)? For now the group certainly can't afford any wands, and likely won't be able to do so for a few levels, realistically, so having a spell-like ability at very early levels seems more useful. Hmmm.

Don't own Complete Mage nor Bo9S nor Complete Scoundrel, though it looks like there may be some good stuff in there that my group may have dismissed out of hand as just adding too many more options to an already overwhelming rules set.

What's Lyric Thaumaturgist like?

Ideally, I'd love this group to continue all the way up to level 20, possibly even incorporating some epic adventures. After all, there's so much stuff to explore in Ptolus!

Great suggestions so far!