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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9757445" data-attributes="member: 87792">And this is a textbook response for someone who has missed a quarter of a century of narrative game development.Seriously "rules that don't get in the way" was the state of narrative systems round the turn of the millennium when Ron Edwards wrote his GNS essays that were an attempt to get people to design games that helped rather than at best minimally hindered narrativist fans. And it took years before they even had the first working prototype (2003 - My Life With Master) and another few years  before the first non-ultra limited games were produced (2006 - Dogs in the Vineyard and Spirit of the Century).And pretty much since 2010 with Apocalypse World, Smallville, and the Fate Core Kickstarter narrative games have been genuinely good and growing and developing. And Daggerheart has  basically borrowed ideas from the past 15 years of narrative game development and woven them almost seamlessly into something that doesn't look very different to 5e in a bad light.For Shadowdark Vs Daggerheart as a 5e off ramp Shadowdark looks easier. But Daggerheart is polished enough that things that look scary (like no initiative) turn out to only be an issue to groups that have pretty severe issues. (There are many posts asking how no initiative works from people who haven't tried it, but almost none from people who found it bad after trying it). And Daggerheart is pretty close to the streamlined character driven game that IME a majority of people including  a supermajority of Critters have been spending a vast amount of time and effort to force 5e to be.</blockquote>

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