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<blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 9191200" data-attributes="member: 32740"><p>Gah! Yeah, I forgot 2E does that (haven't actually played 2E in 20 years when 3E replaced it, but played it exclusively from its release up to that point). Pretty sure I've <em>made </em>that error before... Principle STILL applies though, even if it's in reverse.</p><p></p><p>By default 1E only considers totals UP TO the number indicated on the combat table to determine if you hit. 20's on the table mean if you have a die roll of 20 then +5 to hit from wherever/whatever, the result is still considered to have reached the inherent limit of 20 and the extra bonuses don't matter. When the table then shows 21 after several repeated 20's, the total required IS 21, so you'd have to have a +1 from somewhere, and if <em>all</em> you had was a +1 from somewhere, you'd still need a natural 20 on the die. There's a "hidden" option that limits that a bit further by saying that the second 20 and the other repeated 20's after that require a natural 20 on the die <em>regardless</em> of bonuses, but then when the table shows 21 you still need the natural 20, but have to have at least an additional +1 to go along with that.</p><p></p><p>It's amusing though that 2E is no better at clarity than 1E. Just checked a copy of 2E about the 20's-always-hit, and it can't decide what it wants either:</p><p></p><p>So a 20 <strong>always </strong>hits... except when the DM decides it doesn't... and therefore let's change that to say it's under MOST circumstances that a 20 <em>always</em> hits, not <strong>always</strong> that it always hits... Gygax couldn't have said it better himself.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite18" alt=":ROFLMAO:" title="ROFL :ROFLMAO:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":ROFLMAO:" /></p><p></p><p>Anyway, those differences between how each edition handles that do have an effect on how things would play out, right? And it becomes easy to overlook just what the difference really is, merely because 2E's rule IS simpler and a little <em>too </em>reflexively assumed to therefore be better. As I suggested I'm not overly opposed to 2E's changes and certainly general improvements in organization, but I'm enough of a 1E fanboy to insist that it's not as simple as <em>just </em>making rules simpler.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite13" alt=":cautious:" title="Cautious :cautious:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cautious:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Man in the Funny Hat, post: 9191200, member: 32740"] Gah! Yeah, I forgot 2E does that (haven't actually played 2E in 20 years when 3E replaced it, but played it exclusively from its release up to that point). Pretty sure I've [I]made [/I]that error before... Principle STILL applies though, even if it's in reverse. By default 1E only considers totals UP TO the number indicated on the combat table to determine if you hit. 20's on the table mean if you have a die roll of 20 then +5 to hit from wherever/whatever, the result is still considered to have reached the inherent limit of 20 and the extra bonuses don't matter. When the table then shows 21 after several repeated 20's, the total required IS 21, so you'd have to have a +1 from somewhere, and if [I]all[/I] you had was a +1 from somewhere, you'd still need a natural 20 on the die. There's a "hidden" option that limits that a bit further by saying that the second 20 and the other repeated 20's after that require a natural 20 on the die [I]regardless[/I] of bonuses, but then when the table shows 21 you still need the natural 20, but have to have at least an additional +1 to go along with that. It's amusing though that 2E is no better at clarity than 1E. Just checked a copy of 2E about the 20's-always-hit, and it can't decide what it wants either: So a 20 [B]always [/B]hits... except when the DM decides it doesn't... and therefore let's change that to say it's under MOST circumstances that a 20 [I]always[/I] hits, not [B]always[/B] that it always hits... Gygax couldn't have said it better himself.:ROFLMAO: Anyway, those differences between how each edition handles that do have an effect on how things would play out, right? And it becomes easy to overlook just what the difference really is, merely because 2E's rule IS simpler and a little [I]too [/I]reflexively assumed to therefore be better. As I suggested I'm not overly opposed to 2E's changes and certainly general improvements in organization, but I'm enough of a 1E fanboy to insist that it's not as simple as [I]just [/I]making rules simpler.:cautious: [/QUOTE]
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