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What Do You prefer 1E vs 2E
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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9204651" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>Given that Thieves get very little from levels, I wonder how much more xp they'd need to truly shine. Actually, given that Thieves have all of their class abilities unlocked by 13, it doesn't even seem particularly beneficial to gain levels beyond that point- you should have maximum ability in all Thieving abilities you'd care to use*, and from this point on, you're getting 2 hit points and glacial improvements in attack and save progression.</p><p></p><p>Thief 13 is 660,000 xp. At 500,000 you could be a 10th level Fighter with more attacks, a 3 point better Thac0, slightly better saves, and another 11.5 hit points on average, plus likely far better AC.</p><p></p><p>And yes, I know, the main advantage of the Thief isn't combat, but combat is something that's going to occur fairly often, and the Thief mostly has to think outside the box to be helpful in these situations; ie, relying on things other than their class abilities.</p><p></p><p>*this is talking about 2e, of course, 1e leaves you with things like Read Languages at a low percentage until high levels. 2e does let you continue to put points in abilities in order to offset penalties, like really good locks or trying to wear non-Thief armor, but there's likely a point of diminishing returns there as well.</p><p></p><p>It actually seems like the fast xp progression of the is best suited for dual-classing into a Thief later in a campaign- sure you could start as a Thief and then dual-class, but anything but Wizard would be a downgrade (and it would probably take you a very long time to be able to function as a Thief again).</p><p></p><p>Contrast the Bard, which also has a fast track in 2e, but continues to get spellcasting long after Thieves stop gaining anything relevant from levels.</p><p></p><p>There is of course a potential solution to this- introducing the alternate Thieving abilities from Dragon Kings.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9204651, member: 6877472"] Given that Thieves get very little from levels, I wonder how much more xp they'd need to truly shine. Actually, given that Thieves have all of their class abilities unlocked by 13, it doesn't even seem particularly beneficial to gain levels beyond that point- you should have maximum ability in all Thieving abilities you'd care to use*, and from this point on, you're getting 2 hit points and glacial improvements in attack and save progression. Thief 13 is 660,000 xp. At 500,000 you could be a 10th level Fighter with more attacks, a 3 point better Thac0, slightly better saves, and another 11.5 hit points on average, plus likely far better AC. And yes, I know, the main advantage of the Thief isn't combat, but combat is something that's going to occur fairly often, and the Thief mostly has to think outside the box to be helpful in these situations; ie, relying on things other than their class abilities. *this is talking about 2e, of course, 1e leaves you with things like Read Languages at a low percentage until high levels. 2e does let you continue to put points in abilities in order to offset penalties, like really good locks or trying to wear non-Thief armor, but there's likely a point of diminishing returns there as well. It actually seems like the fast xp progression of the is best suited for dual-classing into a Thief later in a campaign- sure you could start as a Thief and then dual-class, but anything but Wizard would be a downgrade (and it would probably take you a very long time to be able to function as a Thief again). Contrast the Bard, which also has a fast track in 2e, but continues to get spellcasting long after Thieves stop gaining anything relevant from levels. There is of course a potential solution to this- introducing the alternate Thieving abilities from Dragon Kings. [/QUOTE]
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