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What do you think about the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Book
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<blockquote data-quote="Primal" data-source="post: 4434116" data-attributes="member: 30678"><p>[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]<span style="color: White">[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]<span style="font-size: 10px">(Crossposted from Candlekeep)</span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">Here's my review of 4E FRCG, based on reading through a friend's copy (he was promptly kicked out of his group for his sacrilege! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />).</span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">Some comments based on what I remember:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- Loudwater... now, this chapter *really* sets new standards for low-quality in a published FR product. Frankly, I was stunned at how bad it was... the town map was the *worst* since, like, forever -- it was a square 50 x 50 squares (about) box filled with 20+ buildings. I mean, uh, where do those 9000 people live? Mighty high buildings, I would say! The NPCs... those two we saw in the excerpt were the *best* of the bunch -- 'Brother Griffon' and the rest were really that bad. I'm convinced that the map of Loudwater is to appear in 'Storm of Zehir', and that is probably why it is "primitive" and square-shaped, hey? It may work as a miniature map, but I haven't seen any DM worth his salt using such maps since the original CRPG 'Pool of Radiance' came out. If I had bought this book, I would have felt *insulted* by this map. All in all, I think the book would have been a *LOT* better as a whole without the first chapter. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/rant.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rant:" title="Rant :rant:" data-shortname=":rant:" /></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- The divine symbols of some deities have "evolved", and certainly not for the better. Corellon's symbol is now a "starburst", but can you guess how Lolth's symbol looks like? A slightly different starburst, naturally! Gruumsh's symbol is an odd-looking "triangle" of bones, and Bane's mighty fish has transformed into a three-pronged talon-like appendice! IIRC this was not even explained anywhere, so it's probably a retcon? And, the symbols for the other deities are not even mentioned *at all*, so good luck without your 2E/3E accessories! Or perhaps only the Greater Deities have symbols, now? I also found it odd that deities have only a single "sphere" of control now, because in some cases it results in odd choices for the sphere (as already mentioned here and the WoTC boards) -- was the idea of deities holding multiple portfolios *really* that complex for DMs and players to grasp? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- The Zhentarim also have changed their symbol -- they now wear a brown-colored fanged skull on a burst of dark-brown rays (on yellow field) as their symbol. If it is meant to resemble Cyric's own symbol, the colors seem like an odd choice... <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- Primordials. Ubtao "the Deceiver"? Elder Gods, led by Ouroboros the World-Serpent? And how come the Elemental Lords (Grumbar, Istishia, Akadi, and Kossuth) have had established churches and commanded worship on Toril, if they have always been "just" Primordials confined to Abeir? Or how did Kezef escape from Abeir to hound Mask in the events of the Cyrinishad debacle? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/worried.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":-S" title="Uhm :-S" data-shortname=":-S" /> A lot of this stuff just seems to be quick ideas they threw around in meetings, without researching the established Realmslore properly, in effect creation contradictions and inconsistencies you could fly a Halruaan Skyship through. Oh, I forgot about their "Secret Timeline"... maybe it holds answers to everything? Yeah...</span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- Eladrin. I don't think I saw a single mention of elven subraces, while the Eladrin were mentioned here and there -- I wonder if the elven subraces have been cut altogether from 4E FR? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/worried.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":-S" title="Uhm :-S" data-shortname=":-S" /></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- The glossary (written by Ed) was nice, and there were words and terms you could steal to enrich any FR campaign.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- Most of the 'Overview'-chapter I really flipped through, and my overall feeling was that there was a lot of "meh!"-stuff and bad ideas. Very little info on Baldur's Gate. Oh, the *did* include the City of Sharn from Eberron (after a fashion) in the form of Skyclave, capital of High Imaskar! And if everyone didn't think 'Rose Keep' was enough, there is the 'Castle of the Rose' near Skyclave... </span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- Returned Abeir. Along with Waterdeep, this was the best part in the book, although I may not agree with the whole concept of Abeir/Toril -divide and the nature of the changes. You can really tell that both Waterdeep and Abeir have been written by Ed, and there are a lot of stuff that could be imported into Golarion, for example. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">- One weird detail was that </span>[/FONT]</span>[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]<span style="color: White">[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]<span style="font-size: 10px">Wheloon is now officially a 'Royal Prison City' in Cormyr. They walled in everyone, as it turned out that most of the citizens were... *gasp* ... worshippers of Shar!</span>[/FONT]</span>[/FONT]<span style="color: White"> <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/yawn.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":yawn:" title="Yawn :yawn:" data-shortname=":yawn:" /></span></p><p><span style="color: White"></span>[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]<span style="color: White">[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]<span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px">Summa summarum: My overall impression was that I'm not going to buy this book, because a lot of the changes were explained so vaguely that they contradict published Realmslore, which would require a lot of extra work for me to make it all internally consistent again (George, Eric and Steven -- your efforts will be needed again! . New players and DMs may find it more appealing, but the level of details and especially the *quality* of most of the content I found sorely lacking. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/cry.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":.-(" title="Cry :.-(" data-shortname=":.-(" /></span></span></p><p> <span style="color: White"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span>[/FONT]</span>[/FONT]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Primal, post: 4434116, member: 30678"] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][COLOR=White][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2](Crossposted from Candlekeep) Here's my review of 4E FRCG, based on reading through a friend's copy (he was promptly kicked out of his group for his sacrilege! ;):p). Some comments based on what I remember: - Loudwater... now, this chapter *really* sets new standards for low-quality in a published FR product. Frankly, I was stunned at how bad it was... the town map was the *worst* since, like, forever -- it was a square 50 x 50 squares (about) box filled with 20+ buildings. I mean, uh, where do those 9000 people live? Mighty high buildings, I would say! The NPCs... those two we saw in the excerpt were the *best* of the bunch -- 'Brother Griffon' and the rest were really that bad. I'm convinced that the map of Loudwater is to appear in 'Storm of Zehir', and that is probably why it is "primitive" and square-shaped, hey? It may work as a miniature map, but I haven't seen any DM worth his salt using such maps since the original CRPG 'Pool of Radiance' came out. If I had bought this book, I would have felt *insulted* by this map. All in all, I think the book would have been a *LOT* better as a whole without the first chapter. :rant: - The divine symbols of some deities have "evolved", and certainly not for the better. Corellon's symbol is now a "starburst", but can you guess how Lolth's symbol looks like? A slightly different starburst, naturally! Gruumsh's symbol is an odd-looking "triangle" of bones, and Bane's mighty fish has transformed into a three-pronged talon-like appendice! IIRC this was not even explained anywhere, so it's probably a retcon? And, the symbols for the other deities are not even mentioned *at all*, so good luck without your 2E/3E accessories! Or perhaps only the Greater Deities have symbols, now? I also found it odd that deities have only a single "sphere" of control now, because in some cases it results in odd choices for the sphere (as already mentioned here and the WoTC boards) -- was the idea of deities holding multiple portfolios *really* that complex for DMs and players to grasp? :( - The Zhentarim also have changed their symbol -- they now wear a brown-colored fanged skull on a burst of dark-brown rays (on yellow field) as their symbol. If it is meant to resemble Cyric's own symbol, the colors seem like an odd choice... :erm: - Primordials. Ubtao "the Deceiver"? Elder Gods, led by Ouroboros the World-Serpent? And how come the Elemental Lords (Grumbar, Istishia, Akadi, and Kossuth) have had established churches and commanded worship on Toril, if they have always been "just" Primordials confined to Abeir? Or how did Kezef escape from Abeir to hound Mask in the events of the Cyrinishad debacle? :-S A lot of this stuff just seems to be quick ideas they threw around in meetings, without researching the established Realmslore properly, in effect creation contradictions and inconsistencies you could fly a Halruaan Skyship through. Oh, I forgot about their "Secret Timeline"... maybe it holds answers to everything? Yeah... - Eladrin. I don't think I saw a single mention of elven subraces, while the Eladrin were mentioned here and there -- I wonder if the elven subraces have been cut altogether from 4E FR? :-S - The glossary (written by Ed) was nice, and there were words and terms you could steal to enrich any FR campaign. - Most of the 'Overview'-chapter I really flipped through, and my overall feeling was that there was a lot of "meh!"-stuff and bad ideas. Very little info on Baldur's Gate. Oh, the *did* include the City of Sharn from Eberron (after a fashion) in the form of Skyclave, capital of High Imaskar! And if everyone didn't think 'Rose Keep' was enough, there is the 'Castle of the Rose' near Skyclave... - Returned Abeir. Along with Waterdeep, this was the best part in the book, although I may not agree with the whole concept of Abeir/Toril -divide and the nature of the changes. You can really tell that both Waterdeep and Abeir have been written by Ed, and there are a lot of stuff that could be imported into Golarion, for example. - One weird detail was that [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][COLOR=White][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2]Wheloon is now officially a 'Royal Prison City' in Cormyr. They walled in everyone, as it turned out that most of the citizens were... *gasp* ... worshippers of Shar![/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=White] :hmm::confused::yawn: [/COLOR][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][COLOR=White][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=2] Summa summarum: My overall impression was that I'm not going to buy this book, because a lot of the changes were explained so vaguely that they contradict published Realmslore, which would require a lot of extra work for me to make it all internally consistent again (George, Eric and Steven -- your efforts will be needed again! . New players and DMs may find it more appealing, but the level of details and especially the *quality* of most of the content I found sorely lacking. :.-( [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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