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<blockquote data-quote="SableWyvern" data-source="post: 9769049" data-attributes="member: 1008">Almost every time someone points out a specific, so-called &quot;modern&quot; innovation, it's something that has been around forever; the main point of differentiation from the old is that it's become more widespread and popular, instead of limited to some niche games. Metacurrencies, success with a complication, degrees of success, no &quot;nothing happens&quot; results in combat ... these things can all be found in games from the 70s and 80s.It's why I hold that terms like &quot;regressive&quot; have no place in the discussion. &quot;Modern&quot; games aren't better due to some steady march of progress with superior, more innovative mechanics. They are simply games with mechanics that are currently popular with a particular subset of players that are large enough to matter.Edit: The special effects system in Mythras is at least as innovative a change to Runequest/BRP as many so-called modern innovations. Yet it's not (and never was) considered a modern system in the context of this discussion. Why not? I posit simply because it lacks the overall popularity necessary. It's not innovation in the direction a large enough segment of the market wants, and basically the only people that care are a subset of the overall BRP-family gamers. Hence, I think &quot;modern&quot; in this context mostly just means, &quot;Different enough from D&amp;D in a way that's reasonably popular at the moment&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SableWyvern, post: 9769049, member: 1008"] Almost every time someone points out a specific, so-called "modern" innovation, it's something that has been around forever; the main point of differentiation from the old is that it's become more widespread and popular, instead of limited to some niche games. Metacurrencies, success with a complication, degrees of success, no "nothing happens" results in combat ... these things can all be found in games from the 70s and 80s. It's why I hold that terms like "regressive" have no place in the discussion. "Modern" games aren't better due to some steady march of progress with superior, more innovative mechanics. They are simply games with mechanics that are currently popular with a particular subset of players that are large enough to matter. Edit: The special effects system in Mythras is at least as innovative a change to Runequest/BRP as many so-called modern innovations. Yet it's not (and never was) considered a modern system in the context of this discussion. Why not? I posit simply because it lacks the overall popularity necessary. It's not innovation in the direction a large enough segment of the market wants, and basically the only people that care are a subset of the overall BRP-family gamers. Hence, I think "modern" in this context mostly just means, "Different enough from D&D in a way that's reasonably popular at the moment". [/QUOTE]

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