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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 908762" data-attributes="member: 3146">Yes I would.Even assuming a best case scenario--+2 to hit, +3 to damage with a two handed weapon and a 6 round combat including 3 full attacks (for a total of 9 attacks), the best it's likely to do is 18 points of damage over three rounds. (I know that's not a full accounting because the PC wouldn't hit with every attack thus the damage from strength would be smaller but he'd probably hit with at least one attack that wouldn't otherwise hit thus increasing the total damage--I'm assuming that these (and the IME unusually long assumed combat duration and unusually high number of full attacks) balance out).Compared to 1st level spells: Magic missile does at least 7 points of average damage (and most likely 11-14) in a single round (Which is considerably more useful than having the damage spread over 6 rounds). Burning Hands does an average of 7 to 13 points of damage (save for 1/2) in an area effect. Color Spray and Sleep have significantly more debilitating effects.Bless offers 1/2 the attack bonus increase but offers it for the whole party.Compared to good 2nd level spells: Sound Burst is likely to do 9 points of damage and stun at least one foe. Glitterdust is likely to blind several foes. Web is likely to entangle most of your foes. Acid Arrow is likely to deal 15-20 points of continual damage (making spellcasting more difficult which bull's strength's damage does not do). If you're playing in FR, Aganzzar's Scorcher is likely to do 13.5 points of damage (more at higher levels) to everyone in a relatively large area. And, who are you kidding? The ability to carry more for 1 min/level is almost completely irrelevant. Any time I've seen PCs have problems carrying things, those things need to be carried for at least ten minutes--usually all day. There's a reason that all of the "carry more things" spells like Tenser's floating Disk and Unseen Servant and all of the travel spells like Mount and Phantom Steed have durations measured in hours rather than minutesHmm. First note that the dex AC bonus only applies if the AC cap on the armor is low enough. Even then +2 to AC--try Protection from evil or Shield of Faith. That's a first level effect. And by 3rd level, 1st level spells give characters +3 to AC.+2 to ranged attack actions. Sounds a lot like blessed Aim (another 2nd level spell). Only Blessed Aim is for the whole party.Better reflex saves are completely irrelevant for something you're going to cast in combat. A readied magic missile, acid arrow, or sound burst, stands a good chance of preventing all PCs in the party from having to make the save at all.Remember those hit points aren't temporary--if you're living off of them at the end of the combat, you'd better hope the duration lasts long enough for the cleric to heal you or you'll be dead.The fort saves are largely irrelevant for the same reason reflex saves are. A second level spell--and more importantly, a standard action--could be far more productively spent preventing characters from having to make saves at all by killing the opponent more quickly or disrupting the spell. If you want saving throw type spells that are worth casting IN combat, you'll need to look to things like Protection from elements and delay poison. They don't just give you a slightly better chance of avoiding the effect you're facing at the moment; they render you almost completely immune to it.If I could pay my characters enemies to try that tactic, I would. My odds are far far better to make a single save with the DC 2 points higher than it would otherwise be than to make two saves against the normal DC. (Unless, of course, the DC is high enough to require me to roll an 18 or better to make the save--in that case though, I'll happily trade an extra round to kill the caster or for someone to ready an action to stop the spell for the save going from "you'll need to be very lucky to make it" to "you'll need God's own luck to make it"). And, in any case enemies usually have spells of higher level that they could be casting for greater effect in any given combat. If they waste their crucial 1st round on a second level spell to increase their DCs, less power to them. Better that than facing the fireball/Ice Storm/Summon Monster VI in round 1 when it would have the greatest effect. As a PC, OTOH, I'd far rather have another glitterdust or web in my arsenel.Sure. You can be creative but the spells will still suck. 1 min/level is a pretty temporary countermeasure. It's also a very weak skill boost. Guidance gives 1/2 the bonus to skills and it's a zero level spell. If we take guidance as a baseline, the statbuffs have the cost effectiveness of a 2d3 ray of frost at two levels higher. Not worth it.It's amazing how many people seem to equate "useful" with "must have." Just because statbuffs were an effective use of 2nd level spell slots doesn't mean they were the only way to use those spell slots. The stat buffs weren't "must have" spells in 3e although they were very useful. A character could be constructed whose primary contribution to the party was in terms of stat buffs. However, effective characters could be constructed who didn't use stat buffs at all. (I saw quite a few sorcerors and wizards who made great use of Web, glitterdust, and flaming sphere but no use of stat buffs and a number of clerics who rarely used stat buffs but made efficient use of Hold Person, Calm Emotions, and Sound Burst). Now, instead of those two categories of useful characters, there will be one category of useful characters and the statbuff specialists will be useless characters. More choices? Not really.</blockquote>

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