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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mark" data-source="post: 908850" data-attributes="member: 5">Allow be to digress first to point out that I was saying not that my side was supported by the vast majority but rather that (and I cannot make this clear enough) your side doesn't appear to be supported by a vast majority, or indeed a majority at all (since so many are neutral) and a change of this magnitude, IMO, requires a large, if not vast majority for me to feel comfortable.Anyway, too powerful?  Perhaps, but only in some uses.  The problem is that the change sweeps away many of the uses that are not too powerful (Buff to climb, Wesley?, Wanna help in the quarry?, Spend the day helping move the palace furniture?).  To accomplish a reduction in how long the spell is effective in combat, the change has completely wiped out any of the usefulness beyond immediate, short-term feats of strength.  Not good, IMO.  Some will not bemoan the loss of roleplaying opportunities, others (like me) will, and if there is a way to avoid anyone needing to bemoan the change, why not seek it out and implement it?I suggested an alternative somewhere in one of these threads, to whit, add a caveat to the spell that is similar to Shocking Grasp that allows the spell to be thrown at any time, and be used in mundane tasks for the long duration, but not kick in with the short duration expiration until combat is joined.  This achieves the desired affect as suggested by what we've been privy as the goal, without tossing the baby strongly out with the Bull's water.  Leave it at an hour per level for the mundane, non-combat oreinted stuff, and who really cares but the roleplayers?  For the "combat-joined" expiration I would be one who would say that 10 minutes per level seems to pare it back far enough, and others say one minute per level, and even others say one round per level.  I'm not so Bullheaded to not be able to compromise at one minute per level if that previous caveat were included in the spells design.At one minute per level (once combat is entered) it is short enough to expire fairly quickly...without committing additional resource by way of an Extend Spell Feat application, which (as is my goal in anything) leaves as many options as can reasonably be expected after the change.That, IMO, would have been judicious design and compromise that I think addresses the perceived problems without rashly removing the components that did not require fixing.Perhaps I am wrong?</blockquote>

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