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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 648660" data-attributes="member: 3146">Interesting. The change in prereqs would actually make it much easier for clerics to get into the class though. Which is probably not what you want. I think the DotF requirements were based on the idea that the Hospitallers were a knighthood like the historical Knights of St John (Hospitallers).That rather depends. It's a very very powerful ability. No question about that. And it makes the Consecrated Harrier very fearsome to his intended target. But that's probably as it should be. The BBEG retreats before the Harrier's dogged pursuit, attempting to put powerful minions (against whom Blessings of Scripture doesn't greant bonusses) in between him and the Harrier. The thing is that the Consecrated Harrier doesn't really get much more than Blessings of Scripture. They get 4 skill points per level but have a pretty lousy list (despite the track prereq, they don't have Wilderness Lore on the list). They get higher level spells than most prestige classes, but their spell list is mostly flavor and utility spells. It doesn't have anything earthshaking on it. They can use Dispel Magic and a False Vision, etc but those aren't really impressive abilities either (especially since the Dispel Magic will never be of high enough level to reliably dispel any full time spellcaster's spells). They get implaccable hunt, etc. which are useful--but only if they can actually take on the enemy they're hunting.  And they have blessings of Scripture. If the blessings are nerfed, the class (which I've yet to see anyone except me express much interest in) doesn't have much to recommend it.1. True. It's even better if you add the paladin's immunity to disease into the mix. But it doesn't grant the bonus to anyone else. OTOH, it pretty much makes the prereq of Iron Will a wasted feat. For that matter, since nearly all enchantments have will:negates as a save, paladins are pretty much immune to them as well by the time Holy Liberators get this ability. Even a paladin's weak saves are often up at +10 to +11 by the time Holy Liberators get this ability.2. Also true.3. That's a problem with the paladin spell list and it's easily fixed by either giving the Paladin the Holy Liberator spell list or adding a few spells to the paladin list (Bull's Strength, Endurance, Eagle's Splendor, Prayer) or reducing the level of some spells for Paladins (Weapon of the Deity or Lesser Aspect of the Deity at 2nd or 3rd level for Paladins wouldn't hurt balance any).4. Highly contingent. A Holy Liberator with prior levels of cleric won't be as good in combat. A holy Liberator with fighter levels and weapon specialization will be better in combat. As far as Holy Liberator levels go though, they're actually slightly inferior to paladin levels in terms of combat powers gained. Smite evil isn't nearly so impressive when you have 10 Holy Liberator levels as when you have 20 paladin levels.5. Holy Liberators are actually far inferior to paladins in terms of turning ability. A 10th level paladin turns undead as an 8th level cleric. A fighter 4/Cleric 2/Holy Liberator 4 will only turn undead as a 4th level cleric. Holy Liberator turning ability is pretty much only useful against undead that aren't threats to begin with.Also note that Paladins get Lay on Hands which gets really powerful at high levels (I'd expect a 20th level paladin to be able to use it for at least 200+ points of healing/day). Holy Liberators don't.I think Holy Liberator is actually pretty balanced against a paladin. The only real complaint paladins have is that their spell list is pathetic. But that's a problem with paladins not Holy Liberators. (And it can be remedied by using various splatbooks and 3rd party publishers).Your spell list is better than the paladin list at level 2 and level 3. However, it leaves off some of the spells that really make spellcasting worthwhile for a paladin: Bless Weapon, Heal Mount and Holy Sword. It also leaves out some of the DotF paladin spells which are actually quite good: Divine Sacrifice, Zeal, etc. 4d8+10 points of healing seems like it's hardly worth a spell by 17th level.  Especially when Lay on Hands will probably cure something like 120+ points of damage</blockquote>

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