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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 135515" data-attributes="member: 2268">HmmmI think one of the main problems to cast the DL roles into 3E mold is that they weren´t really created to be an "alternative" choice. Look at the classes that are mostly discussed.The Knights were a choice-for-life, usually. You joined the Order, and while you were a Knight, you didn´t go and took some levels as Rogue or Cleric or anything else, except Knight levels. If you took any other levels, you were tried for dishonourable conduct, and possibly expelled. As an ex-Knight, you of course could rise in another class...The Wizards of High Sorcery are a choice-for-life even more. As they regulate all arcane spellcasters on Ansalon, you either joined them, or you became a renegade. Joining just meant powers depending on your moon, a slightly better spell progression and two forbidden schools. A renegade was the standard wizard, just that he was hunted to death. If you were a member, you didn´t take other levels either, because they were of small use, except rogue levels. You weren´t allowed to bear weapons and armor anyway. Leaving the WoHS was a no-no, because you either became a renegade wizard (death or conversion), or you started in another class...and became a multi-classed wizard who was not in the Order and defied the Conclave´s rules about weapons/armor...renegade again.As Michael Tree already pointed out...both the Knights and the Wizards aren´t in their essence "prestige" classes. One was as popular and easily accessible as the US army, the other one was a "do or die" choice. Both didn´t have much in prerequesites, and didn´t offer much in advantages that wasn´t equalized by a set of disadvantages.Another trait of prestige classes is that they serve the specialization of a character, to focus him on a set of skills. Like the Loremaster (collecting knowledge), or the Assassin (killing people). Neither the Knights nor the WoHS really specialized a character...they only inducted him in an organization so he could continue with what he was already doing. Joining the Knights only gave you more prestige, and you could become a watered-down paladin later on...nothing a core class couldn´t have done, too. And the WoHS only offered you your life in peace and a little boost in general magical power in exchange for taking away two schools from your list.I guess there´s way how to express them either as variant classes or as prestige classes...but IMO their feel would be preserved better with making them variant classes. I guess, though, we´ll have to wait and see what the original creators will think up for them.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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