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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Agent Oracle" data-source="post: 2916244" data-attributes="member: 40076">Yep.  This is that same game that I posted about asking for advice on how to leave.  Keifer113 might have explained himsself here, but when I left that party, I was very much in the dark about what was going on.  All I knew was that when we finally did get treasure, it was... how to put this, distressingly more powerful than players of our level should have (my guess was that the Defender I recieved was to be on-par with the holy avenger the paladin had, but I digress)Anyhow, if Keifer113 had let us all know this ahead of time, well, I still would have been sore about having to survive so long on sub-par gear, and leaving my character's build at the mercy of the DM, but i might not have left... well, not as soon as I did.The simple fact of D&D is that, as long as you use fantastic creatures, as long as clerics can spontaneously heal people, as long as wizards can chuck Fireballs, monks that can run UP walls, druids that can change into wild beasts, gnomes that can cast minor magical effects once per day reguardless fo their intelligence or class, the dead walking, inanimate objects walking, changelings, tieflings, asamar, centaurs, dragons demons devils (the whole "D" chapter of the original monster manual)... long story short, magic just isn't that awe-inspiring in the D&D world.For magic to leave a player slack-jawed, you'd have to remove it to a great distance from the world.  Forbid clerics, wizards, sorcerers, druids, bards, monks (just for their extrordinary abilities) and paladins (That leaves, uh, Rogues, Barbarians and fighters?), oh, and only the human race.  And then genuinely run the world where they fight against NPC-generated enemies with identical restrictionsMakes each bar fight more deadly, makes laying siege more tactical and less metaphysical.  But to really scare them, as they approach the end... someone "Out of the Blue" produces a magical effect agtainst which they are unprepared. it could be a revealing that the minor NPC that's been helping them all this time is an Elven sorcerer, pretending to be a rogue... or it could be that their fellow prisoner in a tower is a werewolf.  it's enough to make them fall apart.  THAT'S how you run a low-to-no-magic setting.But, you know, facing creatures that have damage reductions x/+1, or that regenendlessly unles they take fire / acid damage, or chimera, dragons, demons, devils... the entire D section of the DMG basicly... well, doing that, there's not enough suspention of disbelief that such horiffic creatures could exist in a fantasy world and still leave any kind of civilization.Conan the barbarian is a great example of Low Magic Until It Counts Setting.  The Grey Mouser is also a great example.  Anyhow, I've gone off on a rant.  I'll just end up here.  Keifer113, i'm sure you're a great DM in your own right.  you had some fantastic set pieces, and lots of miniatures, and plenty of options for every eventuality.  But when it came right down to it, your concept of D&D fun was too different from my concept of D&D fun.</blockquote>

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