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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Abstruse" data-source="post: 5938615" data-attributes="member: 6669048">A line has to be drawn somewhere between the fluff and the mechanics. That's what the debate over rangers/paladins is about.What defines a paladin? The idea of a paladin is the holy knight in shining armor, bringing his/her god's will to the world through both spell and sword. That's awesome. But why does it need to be a class? Is there enough variation in the different styles of paladin to warrant the different themes that could be applied? Is there such a thing as a slayer paladin? A necromancer paladin? If you add the thief theme onto a paladin, is that still a paladin? Or an archery theme? Apply that same logic to other classes, like ranger or assassin.I'm going to shift gears here and talk about the assassin instead of the paladin. Why? Because honestly, I don't care about paladins one way or the other. Assassins, however, have always been one of my favorite classes and I've lamented that they're so rarely executed well mechanically.There's a lot of variation in the different styles of assassin. The question becomes, though, does it need a distinct class to show that variation or can it be done without a class? In this case, no. Apply the thief theme to the fighter and you have a brutish thug. He uses deception and stealth to his advantage, but has no problems going toe-to-toe with someone. Sure, he'll hide and poison and sneak and all that, but he doesn't have to. He's a fighter with several tricks up his sleeve.Put the slayer theme on the rogue class and you have a very subtle but important shift. Suddenly, this assassin's armor isn't as tough and his hit points aren't as high. He can't take punishment nearly as much. So he strikes from ambush to do maximum damage and fades back. He looks for weaknesses and constantly fights dirty. He wants that sneak attack damage badly because if he doesn't drop the enemy first, he's going to get hurt in return.Try the magic user theme on the rogue. Now we've got someone with a few mystical tricks, secret weapons and ancient techniques that take the most advantage of every situation. Immobilize a foe so he can't move, then rush in for a sneak attack. Hide in the shadows using illusions and subtle magics. Ladies and gentlemen, that sounds like a ninja to me.So here's the question in play. We know we can recreate a paladin in Next using the themes and classes we've been given. Many people (myself included) have been calling the Moradin cleric a "paladin". So how much variation can you have within the idea of what is and isn't a paladin without losing that feel of being a "paladin"? If there's not enough wiggle room, there's no amount of justification you can give me for paladin to be a class. Same with assassin, same with ranger, same with samurai, same with monk, same with bard, same with every other "niche" class that has ever appeared in the game.</blockquote>

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