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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 8605684" data-attributes="member: 92511">I tend to think of ye olde &quot;18&quot; as the natural peak/top of human potential performance.Since this is a fantasy game, and magic is real, clearly it is not only possible, but not uncommon, for various creatures, species, and human/humanoid persons to be able to exceed that.So I would say &quot;20&quot; is &quot;enhanced human&quot; but not, necessarily, &quot;inhuman&quot; or &quot;godly.&quot; My homebrew -because we're talking about heroic fantasy- permits PCs to &quot;naturally&quot; exceed their species maximums with ASIs to get to a 19 or 20, only at the upper levels of play. I think you can use an ASI to get over 18 in your class prime ability at 12th (or so) level, and any ability score after 15th or 17th, I think.I'd put the likes of Captain America and Black Panther at 20. I'd let things like big/bulky hobgoblins, some orcs, some lizardmen and troglodytes, most bugbears all could (naturally) venture up to 20. Spiderman (or Iron Man with the mechanics of the armor) is reaching into, like, a 22. This would be your bugbears, your ogres, your trolls (&quot;Large,&quot; bulky, heavily-muscled types). Humans, Orcs, et al, would need some kind of magic or mutation to achieve this.[Marvel] Thor is [D&amp;D] 25. This gets you equivalent to giants, titans, some gods. While Hulk, quite literally, has no upper limit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 8605684, member: 92511"] I tend to think of ye olde "18" as the natural peak/top of human potential performance. Since this is a fantasy game, and magic is real, clearly it is not only possible, but not uncommon, for various creatures, species, and human/humanoid persons to be able to exceed that. So I would say "20" is "enhanced human" but not, necessarily, "inhuman" or "godly." My homebrew -because we're talking about heroic fantasy- permits PCs to "naturally" exceed their species maximums with ASIs to get to a 19 or 20, only at the upper levels of play. I think you can use an ASI to get over 18 in your class prime ability at 12th (or so) level, and any ability score after 15th or 17th, I think. I'd put the likes of Captain America and Black Panther at 20. I'd let things like big/bulky hobgoblins, some orcs, some lizardmen and troglodytes, most bugbears all could (naturally) venture up to 20. Spiderman (or Iron Man with the mechanics of the armor) is reaching into, like, a 22. This would be your bugbears, your ogres, your trolls ("Large," bulky, heavily-muscled types). Humans, Orcs, et al, would need some kind of magic or mutation to achieve this. [Marvel] Thor is [D&D] 25. This gets you equivalent to giants, titans, some gods. While Hulk, quite literally, has no upper limit. [/QUOTE]

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