Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Does a Strength 20 Look Like (In Real Life)?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="CleverNickName" data-source="post: 8606698" data-attributes="member: 50987"><p>Well, I'll try to explain why. (But buckle up, I'm a scientist, engineer, and a statistics nerd in real life. I can go on about this stuff for days...I'm often paid to do exactly that!)</p><p></p><p>First of all, I agree with you: he <em>could have </em>lots of things, game-wise. But we don't know any of that for certain. Sure, we can make assumptions and educated guesses, but even the best assumptions introduce a margin of error...possibly even compounding error, if we start making assumptions that rely on other assumptions. We assume proficiency, then assume a class level which modifies that proficiency bonus, then assume enough class levels to also assume feats that also adjust other things...we are multiplying error upon error. This isn't helpful, because the more guesswork we use, the more wrong we are likely to be.*</p><p></p><p>So for the lowest margin of error, we would use the rule that requires us to make the fewest assumptions for missing data--not what we "can safely assume," not stuff that "feels right," but <em>data...</em>things that have been measured and recorded.*</p><p></p><p>The only data we have is the distance he jumped. We have very good data, too: carefully-measured, verified, and reviewed data. We know that he jumped 8.95 meters, and that's really the only number we have here in the real world that is also in the Player's Handbook. All else would be conjecture and assumption, and therefore unreliable...and that's the long-winded answer to your question.*</p><p></p><p>Again, I do agree with you: he <em>could have </em>lots of things, game-wise. And if he were a D&D character, he certainly would. (Well, unless he's an NPC, in which case he might not have levels. And we don't know if our DM lets us use Feats and Multiclassing either, or...) But Mike Powell is not a D&D character, he's a human athlete...and a very impressive one! I'm not trying to create a Mike Powell 5E character sheet; I'm trying to picture what the D&D rules look like in real-life, and how incredible these athletes look through that lens. Imagine: there are humans walking among us who are stronger than the giants and dragons of D&D!</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">*Yes, this is a stretch. These are rules for a tabletop roleplaying game, not the Second Law of Thermodynamics. All of D&D 's rules are going to look absolutely absurd when compared to real life, and one moogle's absurdity is another's doctrine. It is laughable to think that the rules for Long Jump are somehow 'closer to real life' than the rules for a multiclassed Fighter/Monk. All I'm asking is that folks laugh <em>with me </em>here: you asked me why I wanted to use one ridiculous equation instead of a different equally-ridiculous equation, and I'm trying to give a serious and thoughtful answer.</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I don't mind, except that after a while it starts to feel like I'm being credited (blamed?) for what is written in the rules. I didn't create the rules for Long Jump, and I'm not adding or removing anything to them. Clearly the equation is problematic, but it's not my equation to fix. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CleverNickName, post: 8606698, member: 50987"] Well, I'll try to explain why. (But buckle up, I'm a scientist, engineer, and a statistics nerd in real life. I can go on about this stuff for days...I'm often paid to do exactly that!) First of all, I agree with you: he [I]could have [/I]lots of things, game-wise. But we don't know any of that for certain. Sure, we can make assumptions and educated guesses, but even the best assumptions introduce a margin of error...possibly even compounding error, if we start making assumptions that rely on other assumptions. We assume proficiency, then assume a class level which modifies that proficiency bonus, then assume enough class levels to also assume feats that also adjust other things...we are multiplying error upon error. This isn't helpful, because the more guesswork we use, the more wrong we are likely to be.* So for the lowest margin of error, we would use the rule that requires us to make the fewest assumptions for missing data--not what we "can safely assume," not stuff that "feels right," but [I]data...[/I]things that have been measured and recorded.* The only data we have is the distance he jumped. We have very good data, too: carefully-measured, verified, and reviewed data. We know that he jumped 8.95 meters, and that's really the only number we have here in the real world that is also in the Player's Handbook. All else would be conjecture and assumption, and therefore unreliable...and that's the long-winded answer to your question.* Again, I do agree with you: he [I]could have [/I]lots of things, game-wise. And if he were a D&D character, he certainly would. (Well, unless he's an NPC, in which case he might not have levels. And we don't know if our DM lets us use Feats and Multiclassing either, or...) But Mike Powell is not a D&D character, he's a human athlete...and a very impressive one! I'm not trying to create a Mike Powell 5E character sheet; I'm trying to picture what the D&D rules look like in real-life, and how incredible these athletes look through that lens. Imagine: there are humans walking among us who are stronger than the giants and dragons of D&D! [SIZE=3]*Yes, this is a stretch. These are rules for a tabletop roleplaying game, not the Second Law of Thermodynamics. All of D&D 's rules are going to look absolutely absurd when compared to real life, and one moogle's absurdity is another's doctrine. It is laughable to think that the rules for Long Jump are somehow 'closer to real life' than the rules for a multiclassed Fighter/Monk. All I'm asking is that folks laugh [I]with me [/I]here: you asked me why I wanted to use one ridiculous equation instead of a different equally-ridiculous equation, and I'm trying to give a serious and thoughtful answer.[/SIZE] I don't mind, except that after a while it starts to feel like I'm being credited (blamed?) for what is written in the rules. I didn't create the rules for Long Jump, and I'm not adding or removing anything to them. Clearly the equation is problematic, but it's not my equation to fix. 🤷♂️ [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Does a Strength 20 Look Like (In Real Life)?
Top