Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What does balance mean to you?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7158279" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Nod. I see it more as a minimal standard, a game needs to be balanced to some degree to be playable, and can always be better-balanced, but /just/ being well-balanced won't make a game successful. It is one of the things that can be directly addressed with design, though, so it's well worth trying for, and every edition of D&D, even 3rd with it's 'rewards for system mastery,' made some attempts. </p><p></p><p>And, of course, for D&D, in particular, being too-well balanced can be controversial.</p><p></p><p> Yep, that doesn't make it invalid or not worth considering or acknowledging.</p><p></p><p>I mean, there are other ideas out there using the label of 'balance,' that doesn't mean that the idea of maximizing viable/meaningful choices is invalid just because the idea of "making everything identical" is also trying to claim the same jargon.</p><p></p><p></p><p> Does it? I mean, people, often not even fans, have long complained about D&D, and each edition has addressed some of those complaints. There was controversy in the 80s, laughably, about D&D being 'Satanic' but, Demons & Devils were re-named for 2e. Vancian 'memorization' was roundly criticized for a long time, and it was re-imagined as 'preparation,' and is now spontaneous slot-casting. People complained about 3.x 'static combats' and 'rocket tag' and we got 4e 'dynamic,' 'set piece' combats, which people complained about, so we have 5e 'fast combats.' </p><p></p><p>The expectation that whining loud and long about D&D will eventually provoke a new edition, with new problems, certainly seems at least empirically justified.</p><p></p><p> It is /particularly/ overt, in 5e, that DMs can just jump in and fix things up, but it was how we traditionally ran D&D back in the day, it was explicit in 3.0 as 'Rule 0,' however thoroughly the community ignored it, and it's really not possible for a game to prevent such tinkering, even where it might not be 'needed.' </p><p></p><p>So, OT1H, I agree, and don't blame designers for designing 5e as a 'starting place' from which the DM creates the game he wants, rather than being plug-and-play, since that was the only way they'd come close to meeting any of their pie-in-the-sky 'big tent' goals. But, OTOH, I also find the desire to evaluate, judge, and bitch about the current state of the game understandable. </p><p>At least, this time around, it's hasn't sunk to the level of edition warring.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7158279, member: 996"] Nod. I see it more as a minimal standard, a game needs to be balanced to some degree to be playable, and can always be better-balanced, but /just/ being well-balanced won't make a game successful. It is one of the things that can be directly addressed with design, though, so it's well worth trying for, and every edition of D&D, even 3rd with it's 'rewards for system mastery,' made some attempts. And, of course, for D&D, in particular, being too-well balanced can be controversial. Yep, that doesn't make it invalid or not worth considering or acknowledging. I mean, there are other ideas out there using the label of 'balance,' that doesn't mean that the idea of maximizing viable/meaningful choices is invalid just because the idea of "making everything identical" is also trying to claim the same jargon. Does it? I mean, people, often not even fans, have long complained about D&D, and each edition has addressed some of those complaints. There was controversy in the 80s, laughably, about D&D being 'Satanic' but, Demons & Devils were re-named for 2e. Vancian 'memorization' was roundly criticized for a long time, and it was re-imagined as 'preparation,' and is now spontaneous slot-casting. People complained about 3.x 'static combats' and 'rocket tag' and we got 4e 'dynamic,' 'set piece' combats, which people complained about, so we have 5e 'fast combats.' The expectation that whining loud and long about D&D will eventually provoke a new edition, with new problems, certainly seems at least empirically justified. It is /particularly/ overt, in 5e, that DMs can just jump in and fix things up, but it was how we traditionally ran D&D back in the day, it was explicit in 3.0 as 'Rule 0,' however thoroughly the community ignored it, and it's really not possible for a game to prevent such tinkering, even where it might not be 'needed.' So, OT1H, I agree, and don't blame designers for designing 5e as a 'starting place' from which the DM creates the game he wants, rather than being plug-and-play, since that was the only way they'd come close to meeting any of their pie-in-the-sky 'big tent' goals. But, OTOH, I also find the desire to evaluate, judge, and bitch about the current state of the game understandable. At least, this time around, it's hasn't sunk to the level of edition warring. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What does balance mean to you?
Top