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What does balance mean to you?
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<blockquote data-quote="dropbear8mybaby" data-source="post: 7158600" data-attributes="member: 6863518"><p>Hmm, might want to update your knowledge base there good sir.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071275" target="_blank">http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071275</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>The classes are reasonably tight, but there is a very significant disparity between sub-classes. Moon versus land circles, for instance, or BM versus Champion. There are significant trap choices in feats as well. A well designed and balanced system would make interesting and viable options no matter what you picked as your sub-class or feat. You shouldn't have to weigh up the options. If your concept fits with a "champion", then taking that shouldn't end up being a negative at the table when your friend Joe takes a Battlemaster and, without any intention and solely due to the mechanics of the system, makes you look like a chump instead of a champ.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Eh, it's not that hard. Most people who want to swing a big sword will look at GWM and think "AWESOME!" Combining PAM with GWM is really a very intuitive thing as well, as is combining SS with Crossbow Expert. These aren't combinations that people have to think hard about it.</p><p></p><p>And that's my issue with ill-considered design choices. They create traps for players that can either benefit them (accidentally combining PAM & GWM on a BM and overshadowing other players at the table) or hurt them (making a beastmaster melee ranger). You shouldn't require system mastery to avoid these things. And the DM shouldn't be required to make the extra effort to curtail or boost things within the system to prevent players from feeling useless or overshadowing others.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, I don't get why there's so much resistance to balance. Balance isn't boring, it doesn't make everything the same, it just brings the power of certain things into line with certain others so that there are no clearly optimal or nonoptimal choices. I've balanced 5e just with a few tweaks here and there to bring other things up to par and nerfed a few others. It's still recognisable as 5e but now if someone wants to make a champion dual wielding handaxes, they'll be just as effective as a BM without having to think too hard about their build choices. Why is that a bad thing to some of you?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dropbear8mybaby, post: 7158600, member: 6863518"] Hmm, might want to update your knowledge base there good sir. [url]http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071275[/url] The classes are reasonably tight, but there is a very significant disparity between sub-classes. Moon versus land circles, for instance, or BM versus Champion. There are significant trap choices in feats as well. A well designed and balanced system would make interesting and viable options no matter what you picked as your sub-class or feat. You shouldn't have to weigh up the options. If your concept fits with a "champion", then taking that shouldn't end up being a negative at the table when your friend Joe takes a Battlemaster and, without any intention and solely due to the mechanics of the system, makes you look like a chump instead of a champ. Eh, it's not that hard. Most people who want to swing a big sword will look at GWM and think "AWESOME!" Combining PAM with GWM is really a very intuitive thing as well, as is combining SS with Crossbow Expert. These aren't combinations that people have to think hard about it. And that's my issue with ill-considered design choices. They create traps for players that can either benefit them (accidentally combining PAM & GWM on a BM and overshadowing other players at the table) or hurt them (making a beastmaster melee ranger). You shouldn't require system mastery to avoid these things. And the DM shouldn't be required to make the extra effort to curtail or boost things within the system to prevent players from feeling useless or overshadowing others. Honestly, I don't get why there's so much resistance to balance. Balance isn't boring, it doesn't make everything the same, it just brings the power of certain things into line with certain others so that there are no clearly optimal or nonoptimal choices. I've balanced 5e just with a few tweaks here and there to bring other things up to par and nerfed a few others. It's still recognisable as 5e but now if someone wants to make a champion dual wielding handaxes, they'll be just as effective as a BM without having to think too hard about their build choices. Why is that a bad thing to some of you? [/QUOTE]
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