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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7596942" data-attributes="member: 6801845">I started this whole conversation with another posting over on the thread that shall not be named, so I thought I'd weigh in.Yes, when I said &quot;challenge the PC&quot; I meant any action with uncertainty that is resolved using PC proficiencies and abilities.&nbsp; This is different from challenging the players who are running the PC.There is often a mix of PC challenge and player challenge.&nbsp; Let's take combat as an example.&nbsp; First, there's various strategies in combat and frequently various goals.&nbsp; Are you just killing everything in sight?&nbsp; Trying to stop them from getting the McGuffin?&nbsp; Trying to protect Ms McGuffin?&nbsp; But there are also baseline strategies like focusing fire, not being what we call &quot;fireball formation&quot; when facing certain opponents etc.But let's say the paladin is fighting a monster and his buddy goes down on the other side of the battlefield.&nbsp; Do they ignore their buddy and let the cleric take care of them?&nbsp; Rush over provoking an opportunity attack? Disengage but then not have an action to lay on hands?&nbsp; Use misty step or save the spell slot for a smite?&nbsp; Those are player challenges because the player is deciding what their PC will do based on the presented scenario.But the majority of action in a combat is likely to be a PC Challenge.&nbsp; Unless the player is doing something to change the odds, the paladin rolls a D20 and adds appropriate bonuses to determine if they hit.&nbsp; PC proficiency, ability scores and other PC specific adjustments are all that matter.Outside of combat, challenging the PC means there's an obstacle the player has decided to overcome using a PC proficiency.&nbsp; There's a lock and the player has decided to pick the lock.&nbsp; I don't care if you're a locksmith and can describe exactly how you're doing it.&nbsp; While it may be interesting to hear how it works, there's still going to be a roll of a D20 and a dexterity (thieve's tools) check to open it unless it's automatically going to succeed.In a broader sense, I like to create adventures that mix PC challenges and Player challenges.&nbsp; If someone has invested a significant amount of PC resources into being the best trap-finder ever, I want to reward that.&nbsp; If the players come up with a clever plan to bypass the trap altogether, I want to reward that as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7596942, member: 6801845"] I started this whole conversation with another posting over on the thread that shall not be named, so I thought I'd weigh in. Yes, when I said "challenge the PC" I meant any action with uncertainty that is resolved using PC proficiencies and abilities. This is different from challenging the players who are running the PC. There is often a mix of PC challenge and player challenge. Let's take combat as an example. First, there's various strategies in combat and frequently various goals. Are you just killing everything in sight? Trying to stop them from getting the McGuffin? Trying to protect Ms McGuffin? But there are also baseline strategies like focusing fire, not being what we call "fireball formation" when facing certain opponents etc. But let's say the paladin is fighting a monster and his buddy goes down on the other side of the battlefield. Do they ignore their buddy and let the cleric take care of them? Rush over provoking an opportunity attack? Disengage but then not have an action to lay on hands? Use misty step or save the spell slot for a smite? Those are player challenges because the player is deciding what their PC will do based on the presented scenario. But the majority of action in a combat is likely to be a PC Challenge. Unless the player is doing something to change the odds, the paladin rolls a D20 and adds appropriate bonuses to determine if they hit. PC proficiency, ability scores and other PC specific adjustments are all that matter. Outside of combat, challenging the PC means there's an obstacle the player has decided to overcome using a PC proficiency. There's a lock and the player has decided to pick the lock. I don't care if you're a locksmith and can describe exactly how you're doing it. While it may be interesting to hear how it works, there's still going to be a roll of a D20 and a dexterity (thieve's tools) check to open it unless it's automatically going to succeed. In a broader sense, I like to create adventures that mix PC challenges and Player challenges. If someone has invested a significant amount of PC resources into being the best trap-finder ever, I want to reward that. If the players come up with a clever plan to bypass the trap altogether, I want to reward that as well. [/QUOTE]

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