Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7597009" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well, you now have a good example of why I can't agree with [MENTION=6859536]Monayuris[/MENTION] when he proposes its not possible to challenge the character, only the player.&nbsp; Monayuris assumes that character generation is even a thing in which the player has agency.&nbsp; It may well not be.&nbsp; I think before we start dealing with the range of complexity that can be found in a game like 5e, we need to have a solid understanding of the difference between &quot;challenging a player&quot; and &quot;challenging a character&quot;.&nbsp; I think my &quot;Choose your Own Adventure&quot; example is simple enough that we can clearly see the two challenges are distinctive in character.&nbsp; One depends entirely on player choice.&nbsp; One involves no player choice.&nbsp;&nbsp; In most situations there will be some mixture of player choice and mechanical resolution, but we can imagine a spectrum and in most cases decide whether the challenge is more like player choice only, more like mechanical resolution only, or lying in a fuzzy area between that so that the best description is &quot;both&quot;.&nbsp; Both is probably more typical in a full fledged PnP RPG, in that most propositions involve adopting a strategy and then making some doubtful proposition which is resolved by a fortune mechanic.&nbsp; But, as my early examples with the locked door show, it's possible to find pure examples in play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7597009, member: 4937"] Well, you now have a good example of why I can't agree with [MENTION=6859536]Monayuris[/MENTION] when he proposes its not possible to challenge the character, only the player. Monayuris assumes that character generation is even a thing in which the player has agency. It may well not be. I think before we start dealing with the range of complexity that can be found in a game like 5e, we need to have a solid understanding of the difference between "challenging a player" and "challenging a character". I think my "Choose your Own Adventure" example is simple enough that we can clearly see the two challenges are distinctive in character. One depends entirely on player choice. One involves no player choice. In most situations there will be some mixture of player choice and mechanical resolution, but we can imagine a spectrum and in most cases decide whether the challenge is more like player choice only, more like mechanical resolution only, or lying in a fuzzy area between that so that the best description is "both". Both is probably more typical in a full fledged PnP RPG, in that most propositions involve adopting a strategy and then making some doubtful proposition which is resolved by a fortune mechanic. But, as my early examples with the locked door show, it's possible to find pure examples in play. [/QUOTE]

Verification