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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7597011" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Way way back In another thread where this came up Idescribed four categories of challenge that I will rehash here...1 - the obstacle can be overcome by using player choices alone. No PC stats are involved. There is no PC stat resolution that is at all reasonable. Answer the riddle to get the macguffin from thoth's emissary. No clues by dint of PC checks.2 - the problem can be overcome by using PC stats and basic mechanics of the game. The player choices in the moment will likely affect the odds of success, maybe to 100% after taking into account the character stats. To get the macguffin from Thor's emissary, win a strength challenge. 3 - there are both #1 and #2 ways to overcome the challenge. Answer the riddle and a rope is lowered for an automatic climb *or* make a difficult and risky climb without the rope. Or, you can choose to deal with Thor's emissary or Thoth's but you only need to beat one. 4 - to overcome the challenge both #1 and #2 are required. A straight action to stats will fail. A series of player choices then brings the chance to overcome it with those kinds of tasks. You must pass both Thoth and Thor emmissary.#1 is in this thread context challenging the player. Any character can give the proper response and overcome. No stats needed or useful.#2 is challenging the character. PC stats must be used. #3 has both represented in a way that either can succeed.#4 has both represented in a way that both are required.Within a campaign and most rpg systems, there are long lasting choices made at chargen. Those typically involve trade- offs. Getting good at ABC means being meh at def. The frequency and import of challenges of each of the above types put into a campaign, that the players see in practice being resolved in one way or another is very important to seeing how much those choices made that differentiate character matter to the gsme.The classic example is a game where the players see in practice they can avoid pitfalls of social skill lacks by "player choices` and do you wind up (shockingly) with an entire party with no Cha scores above 10, maybe multiple 8s.)In my games, there are almost no cases of #1 that matter. These are not presented as obstacles or challenges. **They may be opportunities** - your character deciding to help strangers with mundane tasks after a storm or offer up supplies to hungry folks can be a major thing in the game, but that was not an obstacle. In my games, #2 is the most common type of obstacle by a landslide and #3 and #4 bring up the rear.As I like to describe it, the character is driving the car but the player is choosing when to drive, the route and the destination.If one uses challenge the player #1s the character is stuffed in the trunk. To me, #1 is basically a board game like Monopoly or Go where the piece or token makes no difference. Those are fun, we enjoy them, but it's not what we seek to spotlight in our rpg play.</blockquote>

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