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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7597013" data-attributes="member: 4937">Cool.&nbsp; Now I have perfect information, because you've made me the GM.If the player adopted these sort of actions to bypass the room, then I would consider them to succeed pretty much automatically.&nbsp; Once I was certain the players had a good plan and would stick to it, I'd probably handwave the steps, and just say, &quot;Alright, you've now gathered together on the other side of the room.&quot;As such, I would view this room as having been a pure player challenge that the player's succeeded at.&nbsp; (And not a particularly difficult one at that.)If the player's failed at the challenge, then sort of as a saving throw, the players would have recourse to survive this room based on their character resources.&nbsp; That is to say, if you failed the player challenge part of the room, then it would become (as a sort of mercy) a character challenge where we made reflex saves and opposed strength checks and deducted hit points and made climb checks and so forth until the player's, relying on their character's abilities, extricated themselves from the traps, and now - hopefully wiser for the experience - tried to use their imagination to bypass the obstacles that had now been made apparent to them.On the spectrum of 'pure player challenge' to 'pure character challenge', I would consider this closer to 'pure player challenge', and consider it close enough to a pure player challenge that I wouldn't feel amiss in calling it a &quot;player challenge&quot;.&nbsp; But that's just how I would run it.&nbsp; I've had plenty of arguments by people on this board who have suggested that, since players can invest in skills like &quot;Search&quot; and &quot;Disable Traps&quot; that propositions like I've discussed above should be interpreted as &quot;Search&quot; or &quot;Disable Trap&quot; checks irregardless of the fictional positioning that the player has (improperly?) expressed.&nbsp; And, I'd suggest that there are games other than D&amp;D 5e where the authors have, in describing the process of play much more tightly than D&amp;D usually does, have actually endorsed that position as proper to the game that they intended to create.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7597013, member: 4937"] Cool. Now I have perfect information, because you've made me the GM. If the player adopted these sort of actions to bypass the room, then I would consider them to succeed pretty much automatically. Once I was certain the players had a good plan and would stick to it, I'd probably handwave the steps, and just say, "Alright, you've now gathered together on the other side of the room." As such, I would view this room as having been a pure player challenge that the player's succeeded at. (And not a particularly difficult one at that.) If the player's failed at the challenge, then sort of as a saving throw, the players would have recourse to survive this room based on their character resources. That is to say, if you failed the player challenge part of the room, then it would become (as a sort of mercy) a character challenge where we made reflex saves and opposed strength checks and deducted hit points and made climb checks and so forth until the player's, relying on their character's abilities, extricated themselves from the traps, and now - hopefully wiser for the experience - tried to use their imagination to bypass the obstacles that had now been made apparent to them. On the spectrum of 'pure player challenge' to 'pure character challenge', I would consider this closer to 'pure player challenge', and consider it close enough to a pure player challenge that I wouldn't feel amiss in calling it a "player challenge". But that's just how I would run it. I've had plenty of arguments by people on this board who have suggested that, since players can invest in skills like "Search" and "Disable Traps" that propositions like I've discussed above should be interpreted as "Search" or "Disable Trap" checks irregardless of the fictional positioning that the player has (improperly?) expressed. And, I'd suggest that there are games other than D&D 5e where the authors have, in describing the process of play much more tightly than D&D usually does, have actually endorsed that position as proper to the game that they intended to create. [/QUOTE]

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