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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 7597091" data-attributes="member: 177">If we don't have generally accepted ideas of what the scores stand for, then we can't talk about them until after we define, in excruciating detail, what it means to each of us.  That is a thread on its own.  Getting pedantic about this serves as a deflection.  I prefer to stick to the point, which I think was generally understood - it is a cliche because it is common and understandable, after all.You claim the Zork puzzle is a good one, but I (and I expect most who played the games when they first came out) know a bunch of people who quit Zork because it's puzzles were too hard and frustrating.  Whether you put the hard part at the approach or solution isn't a determiner - it is still *hard*.  Any hard challenge will stymie some people more than others, no matter the form.   This is a problem when the player thought they were designing a character who was supposed to be good at such things, but in play is not, because of the adventure design.  Each player's got their own capacities and competencies, and the point is that those competencies should not need to match their character's.  This is why I included the rope-climbing example, to show that in a different form.  If a player builds an avatar that's supposed to be great at something, to do an end-run around the mechanics is not particularly fair to them.  Now, when you are designing for your own home table, for people and characters you know, it may not be a big deal - you have a particular relationship and understanding you can lean on there.  But, this guidance comes from the context of publishing, where you don't know the people who will be playing the scenario.  In publishing, it is perhaps better to design for the avatar - the accepted and agreed upon interface - rather than to design for the player.  And, you can do that and still have puzzles - just make sure there are mechanical elements included in the puzzle resolution.  In the game, a Strength 6 character can, in theory, punch their way out of a situation, but they can see the mechanics and know what they are getting into if they try, and maybe leave the punching to those who are good at it.  Same should be true for puzzle-challenges.  Maybe the characters with the right skills and stats can get clues, or it is structured akin to a skill challenge, so that those with the mechanical build for it will be better at it.Or, look at it that combats really are themselves a sort of puzzle, with random dice elements.  Why should your other puzzles not be of the same form?</blockquote>

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