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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7597193" data-attributes="member: 4937">I think it is self evident that in a typical combat we are somewhere in the middle of a spectrum between &quot;pure player challenge&quot; and &quot;pure character challenge&quot;.&nbsp; The player's choices matter.&nbsp; It also matters greatly which character they are playing.I will offer a test.&nbsp; It is a pure player challenge when it doesn't matter what character they are playing - a 1st level character can overcome the challenge as well as a 10th level character.&nbsp; The indestructible door which only opens if a riddle is answered is an example.&nbsp; If the player can solve the riddle, they get through the door with a 1st level character.&nbsp; So what is combat like?&nbsp; Well, it's obviously not a pure player challenge!&nbsp; For a given challenge rating, regardless of how skilled the player, there is some character too low of level to reliably win the encounter.&nbsp;&nbsp; While, at the same time, even a nominally skilled tactician will, with a much higher level (or much better optimized) character, breeze through the encounter without any difficulty.So, for the most part, I tend to see combat - though it is not purely a character challenge - as being closer to being a character challenge than it is a player challenge.&nbsp; The player's input matters and sometimes matters a great deal, but simple high level character abilities (big numbers) will suffice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7597193, member: 4937"] I think it is self evident that in a typical combat we are somewhere in the middle of a spectrum between "pure player challenge" and "pure character challenge". The player's choices matter. It also matters greatly which character they are playing. I will offer a test. It is a pure player challenge when it doesn't matter what character they are playing - a 1st level character can overcome the challenge as well as a 10th level character. The indestructible door which only opens if a riddle is answered is an example. If the player can solve the riddle, they get through the door with a 1st level character. So what is combat like? Well, it's obviously not a pure player challenge! For a given challenge rating, regardless of how skilled the player, there is some character too low of level to reliably win the encounter. While, at the same time, even a nominally skilled tactician will, with a much higher level (or much better optimized) character, breeze through the encounter without any difficulty. So, for the most part, I tend to see combat - though it is not purely a character challenge - as being closer to being a character challenge than it is a player challenge. The player's input matters and sometimes matters a great deal, but simple high level character abilities (big numbers) will suffice. [/QUOTE]

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