Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Immortal Sun" data-source="post: 7597720">I'm gonna throw this hook out here and see what fish I catch:I don't like challenging the player.&nbsp; I'm not a fan of riddles.&nbsp; I'm not a fan of puzzles.&nbsp; Even though I actually enjoy these things personally, and so do some of my players, I really don't like the idea that I'm challenging the puppetmaster and not the puppet.&nbsp; That may sound weird but I guess the way I think about it is...if everything is really a player challenge, why do we have characters?&nbsp; Is even having a character a player challenge?&nbsp; Keeping it alive like some kind of pen and paper Tomagotchi?&nbsp; Forever trapped in a world it has no functional control over or influence on, with no ability to leave or even make a choice without the interaction of the player?That's dark man.Yeah, I mean you can't separate the player/character unit.&nbsp; They are and aren't a single unit.&nbsp; The character can only think what the player thinks, even if the player is trying to think like the character.&nbsp; The character can't do anything the player doesn't want to do (unless you're one of those DMs, boooo hisssss!) but the player can't do anything the PC isn't capable of.&nbsp; But at the same time, there are things the PC is capable of the player isn't, there's a level of &quot;experience&quot; the PC has which the player doesn't and the player only comes to understand or do these things via rolls of the dice.&nbsp; The PC casts spells, the player rolls for their effects.&nbsp; The PC swings a sword, the player only rolls to hit and damage.The Player is and isn't the Character.&nbsp; The Character is and isn't the Player.&nbsp; I feel like we devalue the existence of the Character if we frame our thinking of challenges as challenging the Player.&nbsp; The Player will play regardless of which side of the coin the challenges are aimed at.&nbsp; But the Character?&nbsp; Well, we can actually remove him from the equation completely if we wanted.So, by the very nature of even having a Character, we must, to some extent, be challenging the Character somewhere along the road here.&nbsp; Otherwise, for what purpose does the Character exist?Hmmm, that's a little more existential than I intended....</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Immortal Sun, post: 7597720"] I'm gonna throw this hook out here and see what fish I catch: I don't like challenging the player. I'm not a fan of riddles. I'm not a fan of puzzles. Even though I actually enjoy these things personally, and so do some of my players, I really don't like the idea that I'm challenging the puppetmaster and not the puppet. That may sound weird but I guess the way I think about it is...if everything is really a [I]player[/I] challenge, why do we have characters? Is even [I]having[/I] a character a player challenge? Keeping it alive like some kind of pen and paper Tomagotchi? Forever trapped in a world it has no functional control over or influence on, with no ability to leave or even make a choice without the interaction of the player? That's dark man. Yeah, I mean you can't separate the player/character unit. They are and aren't a single unit. The character can only think what the player thinks, even if the player is trying to think like the character. The character can't do anything the player doesn't want to do (unless you're one of [I]those[/I] DMs, boooo hisssss!) but the player can't do anything the PC isn't capable of. But at the same time, there are things the PC is capable of the player isn't, there's a level of "experience" the PC has which the player doesn't and the player only comes to understand or do these things via rolls of the dice. The PC casts spells, the player rolls for their effects. The PC swings a sword, the player only rolls to hit and damage. The Player is and isn't the Character. The Character is and isn't the Player. I feel like we devalue the existence of the Character if we frame our thinking of challenges as challenging the Player. The Player will play regardless of which side of the coin the challenges are aimed at. But the Character? Well, we can actually remove him from the equation completely if we wanted. So, by the very nature of even [I]having[/I] a Character, we must, to some extent, be challenging the Character somewhere along the road here. Otherwise, for what purpose does the Character exist? Hmmm, that's a little more existential than I intended.... [/QUOTE]

Verification