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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7598221" data-attributes="member: 6919838">But in the first example, the character's stats determines how much shielding there is. So the choices that led to those stats and the character stats themselves apply as do the choices made now. So it is a challenge that the character matters to. perhaps this is party of the problem - the definitions of &quot;challenge the character&quot; does not include &quot;no player choices&quot;. Take &quot;i cast wall of fog&quot;. that is an action that involves a character trait and an expendable resource and a choice to use it. No die roll is needed. The player chooses where to put it. So, whatever challenge led to needing or deciding to cast wall of fog challenged the player and the character. Its likely no other characters could do this, or at least relatively few, so &quot;this character here&quot; matters - even though no die roll was made.Similarly, the character who needs to pick a lock might have auto-success, while others wont, as long as they don't try it when under a disadvantaged effect. So again, a combo of character stats and player choices. Nothing in &quot;challenge the character&quot; says the player must be irrelevant - in a fight the player who chooses whether to to concentrate his attacks and where to move with a plan in mind&nbsp; will often fare much better than say someone who lets a random roll decide his actions - player choices will seriously affect the outcome as well as the character stats. Now, if your example was such that there was no boost to shields from character stats *and* literally anybody can operate that console and assign the shields even if they had never seen a starship, then thats challenging the player directly - the character at work become irrelevant - any warm or cold body will do (and perhaps some non-bodies - it is scifi.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7598221, member: 6919838"] But in the first example, the character's stats determines how much shielding there is. So the choices that led to those stats and the character stats themselves apply as do the choices made now. So it is a challenge that the character matters to. perhaps this is party of the problem - the definitions of "challenge the character" does not include "no player choices". Take "i cast wall of fog". that is an action that involves a character trait and an expendable resource and a choice to use it. No die roll is needed. The player chooses where to put it. So, whatever challenge led to needing or deciding to cast wall of fog challenged the player and the character. Its likely no other characters could do this, or at least relatively few, so "this character here" matters - even though no die roll was made. Similarly, the character who needs to pick a lock might have auto-success, while others wont, as long as they don't try it when under a disadvantaged effect. So again, a combo of character stats and player choices. Nothing in "challenge the character" says the player must be irrelevant - in a fight the player who chooses whether to to concentrate his attacks and where to move with a plan in mind will often fare much better than say someone who lets a random roll decide his actions - player choices will seriously affect the outcome as well as the character stats. Now, if your example was such that there was no boost to shields from character stats *and* literally anybody can operate that console and assign the shields even if they had never seen a starship, then thats challenging the player directly - the character at work become irrelevant - any warm or cold body will do (and perhaps some non-bodies - it is scifi.) [/QUOTE]

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