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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7599793" data-attributes="member: 4937">That's such a broad claim I don't know how to engage with it.&nbsp; I don't know what you are really claiming.&nbsp; What I am claiming is that good and enjoyable outcome for everyone almost never involves the DM using fiat to preserve his desired outcome, and certainly not to the degree that his actions are overt and persistent.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the GM uses his power of fiat to override disaster, then the players know that they've been let off the hook, and the outcome is artificial.&nbsp; It's not quite as deflating as discovering your chess opponent threw the game and let you win, but it's in the neighborhood.&nbsp; And if the GM uses his power of fiat to override success, then the players come to know that they really will only win when the GM lets them do so, and that everything is on rails.&nbsp; How well the players enjoy the destination depends on how they got there and why, and likewise the enjoyment of the GM tends to increase when they are using less and less heavy handed stage magic to keep the story going.Let me put it this way.&nbsp; LotR is my favorite book.&nbsp; I've read it 18 times, and browsed it many times.&nbsp; I can recognize every passage in the book and quote a long with many of them.So you can imagine how much I've wanted my little bookworm to share the joy of the story with me.&nbsp; Trouble is, she doesn't respond to the story in the same way that I do.&nbsp; For example, long before she knew that Gandalf was going to die, she was rooting for his death because she hated the character so much.&nbsp;&nbsp; In fact, she let out a whoop of glee when he died.&nbsp; (I don't want to break her heart by telling her the character won't stay dead.)&nbsp; Her reasoning?&nbsp; Because Gandalf was doing everything in the story, and as long as Gandalf was around they could rely on him for everything.&nbsp; And in a very real sense she's right: Frodo even admits and much once he's gone, and Bilbo does as well.&nbsp;&nbsp; Gandalf is a character that HAS to leave the story for long periods.&nbsp; Otherwise, there is no story except his story.Technically, he never gets to fight the Witch King.&nbsp; It's a contest that never happens.&nbsp; He's about to confront the Witch King, when both are distracted - The Witch King by the charge of the Rohirrim and Gandalf by Pippin's plea to come and save Faramir.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7599793, member: 4937"] That's such a broad claim I don't know how to engage with it. I don't know what you are really claiming. What I am claiming is that good and enjoyable outcome for everyone almost never involves the DM using fiat to preserve his desired outcome, and certainly not to the degree that his actions are overt and persistent. If the GM uses his power of fiat to override disaster, then the players know that they've been let off the hook, and the outcome is artificial. It's not quite as deflating as discovering your chess opponent threw the game and let you win, but it's in the neighborhood. And if the GM uses his power of fiat to override success, then the players come to know that they really will only win when the GM lets them do so, and that everything is on rails. How well the players enjoy the destination depends on how they got there and why, and likewise the enjoyment of the GM tends to increase when they are using less and less heavy handed stage magic to keep the story going. Let me put it this way. LotR is my favorite book. I've read it 18 times, and browsed it many times. I can recognize every passage in the book and quote a long with many of them. So you can imagine how much I've wanted my little bookworm to share the joy of the story with me. Trouble is, she doesn't respond to the story in the same way that I do. For example, long before she knew that Gandalf was going to die, she was rooting for his death because she hated the character so much. In fact, she let out a whoop of glee when he died. (I don't want to break her heart by telling her the character won't stay dead.) Her reasoning? Because Gandalf was doing everything in the story, and as long as Gandalf was around they could rely on him for everything. And in a very real sense she's right: Frodo even admits and much once he's gone, and Bilbo does as well. Gandalf is a character that HAS to leave the story for long periods. Otherwise, there is no story except his story. Technically, he never gets to fight the Witch King. It's a contest that never happens. He's about to confront the Witch King, when both are distracted - The Witch King by the charge of the Rohirrim and Gandalf by Pippin's plea to come and save Faramir. [/QUOTE]

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