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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7603636" data-attributes="member: 97077">The player's intent is clear; the character's is not. They don't have to be the same thing since player and character are separate, right? The player could know that earth elementals are vulnerable to thunder damage, but never say anything about the character's knowledge and just describe what he or she wants to do: &quot;I want to go to Ye Olde Magick Shoppe to buy some scrolls of thunderwave.&quot; Just to be sure I understand your position, would you as DM say the character can't do that?There is nothing dishonest about it. If a player wants his or her character to think something is true, that's his or her business. And the player (and character) might be right. But then they both might be wrong, too. That is why the smart play is to verify one's assumptions before acting upon them. That's how something goes from &quot;think&quot; to &quot;know.&quot;It occurs to me there is some conflation between &quot;thinking&quot; and &quot;knowing&quot; in the context of this discussion. I'll try to break these apart in hopes it sheds some light. &quot;Knowing&quot; is related to truth. I can think that this earth elemental is vulnerable to thunder damage, and have my character do the same, because I've read the Monster Manual. I won't know that is true until I, for example, successfully recall the related lore or make an accurate deduction based on available clues. (Or any other task that might establish a thing as being true.) This is the &quot;smart play&quot; I'm talking about with regard to taking action within the game to verify assumptions before acting upon them.Telegraphing is also a good technique here in my view. When describing the environment, the DM provides clues as to the monster's strengths and weaknesses. From there the players can make informed decisions if they're paying attention. If my description is somehow not consistent with how a player, for example, remembers how earth elementals work, then the player might realize something is up. The DM therefore gives the players a fair shot to figure it out before things go potentially awry.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7603636, member: 97077"] The player's intent is clear; the character's is not. They don't have to be the same thing since player and character are separate, right? The player could know that earth elementals are vulnerable to thunder damage, but never say anything about the character's knowledge and just describe what he or she wants to do: "I want to go to Ye Olde Magick Shoppe to buy some scrolls of [I]thunderwave[/I]." Just to be sure I understand your position, would you as DM say the character can't do that? There is nothing dishonest about it. If a player wants his or her character to think something is true, that's his or her business. And the player (and character) might be right. But then they both might be wrong, too. That is why the smart play is to verify one's assumptions before acting upon them. That's how something goes from "think" to "know." It occurs to me there is some conflation between "thinking" and "knowing" in the context of this discussion. I'll try to break these apart in hopes it sheds some light. "Knowing" is related to truth. I can [I]think[/I] that this earth elemental is vulnerable to thunder damage, and have my character do the same, because I've read the Monster Manual. I won't [I]know[/I] that is true until I, for example, successfully recall the related lore or make an accurate deduction based on available clues. (Or any other task that might establish a thing as being true.) This is the "smart play" I'm talking about with regard to taking action within the game to verify assumptions before acting upon them. Telegraphing is also a good technique here in my view. When describing the environment, the DM provides clues as to the monster's strengths and weaknesses. From there the players can make informed decisions if they're paying attention. If my description is somehow not consistent with how a player, for example, remembers how earth elementals work, then the player might realize something is up. The DM therefore gives the players a fair shot to figure it out before things go potentially awry. [/QUOTE]

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