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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7611870" data-attributes="member: 4937">While you can use such gates to feed players more information than they have, once the information is past the gate for whatever reason, including the player owns the Monster Manual and has read it, there is no effective way to put the information back on the other side of the gate.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the player knows everything about stone golems, it doesn't really matter what the player character knows, his play will be inevitably and unavoidably colored by his knowledge of stone golems.&nbsp;&nbsp; The player can, if he wishes, try to pretend he is the character who doesn't know anything about stone golems, but no person can exactly pretend to act as if he did not have knowledge that he has.&nbsp;&nbsp; No person can predict how they would behave if they didn't know something.Even cRPGs with limited player choice and tightly constrained proposition filters can't perfectly deal with that.&nbsp;&nbsp; For example, the old RPG Planescape: Torment gates certain multiple choice dialogue options behind the player character having sufficient INT, WIS, or CHR.&nbsp;&nbsp; Thus, even if the player knows the choice exists and wants to take it, the player can be prevented from making that choice.&nbsp; However, this wall is still imperfect.&nbsp;&nbsp; The player can still select INT, WIS, or CHR specifically to pass certain challenges or receive certain rewards, and the player can still acting on his knowledge of the game solve certain puzzles the first time through without error based on past play throughs or a published walkthrough.&nbsp;&nbsp; Once you know the 'spoilers', you can't ever know how you'd play without them.&nbsp; If the player has the 'spoilers' before the first play through, he'll never know whether his choices are based consciously or unconsciously on the knowledge or consciously or unconsciously trying to avoid basing the choices on the knowledge.&nbsp; There is no way to accurate fake ignorance.&nbsp;&nbsp; If reading a mystery novel, if you have spoilers, you'll have no way of knowing whether without the spoilers you would or wouldn't have figured out the mystery before it was revealed.&nbsp;&nbsp; It just can't happen.As such, there is no real way to stop players from metagaming even if you wanted to.&nbsp;&nbsp; Even if they want to cooperate with your goal, they will be at some point unable to do so.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7611870, member: 4937"] While you can use such gates to feed players more information than they have, once the information is past the gate for whatever reason, including the player owns the Monster Manual and has read it, there is no effective way to put the information back on the other side of the gate. If the player knows everything about stone golems, it doesn't really matter what the player character knows, his play will be inevitably and unavoidably colored by his knowledge of stone golems. The player can, if he wishes, try to pretend he is the character who doesn't know anything about stone golems, but no person can exactly pretend to act as if he did not have knowledge that he has. No person can predict how they would behave if they didn't know something. Even cRPGs with limited player choice and tightly constrained proposition filters can't perfectly deal with that. For example, the old RPG Planescape: Torment gates certain multiple choice dialogue options behind the player character having sufficient INT, WIS, or CHR. Thus, even if the player knows the choice exists and wants to take it, the player can be prevented from making that choice. However, this wall is still imperfect. The player can still select INT, WIS, or CHR specifically to pass certain challenges or receive certain rewards, and the player can still acting on his knowledge of the game solve certain puzzles the first time through without error based on past play throughs or a published walkthrough. Once you know the 'spoilers', you can't ever know how you'd play without them. If the player has the 'spoilers' before the first play through, he'll never know whether his choices are based consciously or unconsciously on the knowledge or consciously or unconsciously trying to avoid basing the choices on the knowledge. There is no way to accurate fake ignorance. If reading a mystery novel, if you have spoilers, you'll have no way of knowing whether without the spoilers you would or wouldn't have figured out the mystery before it was revealed. It just can't happen. As such, there is no real way to stop players from metagaming even if you wanted to. Even if they want to cooperate with your goal, they will be at some point unable to do so. [/QUOTE]

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