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<blockquote data-quote="Wofano Wotanto" data-source="post: 9633416" data-attributes="member: 7044704">That is largely true (I know I certainly don't keep up with what's left of the 4e community any more) but I think in that particular case it's partly because a lot of folks drifted over to 13th Age, which is jokingly referred to as D&amp;D 4.5 around these parts - and with 2nd edition due soon, definitely not dead.&nbsp; There's also the fan-made Orcus to consider, although I haven't dug into that as deeply as a I probably should, and in terms of obvious design influence Massif's games (both Lancer and the unfinished Icon) are obvious descendants of 4e.&nbsp; There's at least one other whose name is eluding me, so 4e has legitimately spawned a few offspring even if the family tree may be a bit indirect.&nbsp; The edition basically started the idea of drilling down hard on making combat engaging as a sub-game unto itself while letting then non-combat stuff run on lighter side systems and narrative play, and other people (or the same, in the case of 13th Age) are running with exploring that. There's also an in-the-works supers RPG called Indominant that seems to share some design philosophy, with elements I recognize from PF2, 4e, and Sentinel Comics.&nbsp; Not sure what that's going to end up looking like in the end.So is a game dead or dying if its core design concept has gone on to be used as the foundation of many other games?Me too, but I admit it's vaguely surprising that to this day we've never seen another soap opera RPG, at least not one that managed to get on my radar.&nbsp; Soaps themselves are much-faded at this point, but we also didn't see (say) a game emulating reality TV franchises, some of which (eg Survivor) seem like they could have made (unusual) RPG fodder.&nbsp; Probably not worth licensing, but a knockoff with the name filed off could have worked - but i don't recall even an attempt at it.Might have just missed some examples, but it feels like an odd gap in a hobby full of esoteric games.&nbsp; Surely that one half-forgotten SPI flop can't have tainted the concept of &quot;pop fad TV RPG&quot; so badly it's untouchable?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wofano Wotanto, post: 9633416, member: 7044704"] That is largely true (I know I certainly don't keep up with what's left of the 4e community any more) but I think in that particular case it's partly because a lot of folks drifted over to 13th Age, which is jokingly referred to as D&D 4.5 around these parts - and with 2nd edition due soon, definitely not dead. There's also the fan-made Orcus to consider, although I haven't dug into that as deeply as a I probably should, and in terms of obvious design influence Massif's games (both Lancer and the unfinished Icon) are obvious descendants of 4e. There's at least one other whose name is eluding me, so 4e has legitimately spawned a few offspring even if the family tree may be a bit indirect. The edition basically started the idea of drilling down hard on making combat engaging as a sub-game unto itself while letting then non-combat stuff run on lighter side systems and narrative play, and other people (or the same, in the case of 13th Age) are running with exploring that. There's also an in-the-works supers RPG called Indominant that seems to share some design philosophy, with elements I recognize from PF2, 4e, and Sentinel Comics. Not sure what that's going to end up looking like in the end. So is a game dead or dying if its core design concept has gone on to be used as the foundation of many other games? Me too, but I admit it's vaguely surprising that to this day we've never seen another soap opera RPG, at least not one that managed to get on my radar. Soaps themselves are much-faded at this point, but we also didn't see (say) a game emulating reality TV franchises, some of which (eg Survivor) seem like they could have made (unusual) RPG fodder. Probably not worth licensing, but a knockoff with the name filed off could have worked - but i don't recall even an attempt at it. Might have just missed some examples, but it feels like an odd gap in a hobby full of esoteric games. Surely that one half-forgotten SPI flop can't have tainted the concept of "pop fad TV RPG" so badly it's untouchable? [/QUOTE]

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