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What does "magic" mean? [Read carefully, you can't change your vote]
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<blockquote data-quote="Baron Opal II" data-source="post: 8479057" data-attributes="member: 6794067"><p>Seriously?</p><p></p><p>Okay- Surely I'm not the only DM that allowed dwarven clerics when the table stated that they existed. <span style="font-size: 12px">(1)</span> I surmise that they were "NPC only" because a dwarven cleric would never fail a Poison / Death saving throw. Notably, all such race / class combinations were clerics or druids. It seemed that Gary recognized that all races would have a faith, but didn't like them "on stage" for whatever reason. So, yes, let's presume a dwarven cleric for a moment. Now, the rules do say that the minimum clerical level is 11th for item enchanting. <span style="font-size: 12px">(2)</span> I did indeed bend this for dwarven clerics at first, although later this restriction was restored when class and level limits were later adjusted in Unearthed Arcana <span style="font-size: 12px">(3)</span>. At this point PC dwarven clerics were explicitly allowed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's what I'm seeing. The cleric spends three weeks in seclusion and fasting, ritually cleanses the item, and then prays upon it until the god empowers the item. This should take 10-14 days on average. So plan on 5-6 weeks of down time for the cleric. And, since it needs to be said, clerics don't need <em>enchant an item</em> they just follow the guidelines regarding item quality.</p><p></p><p>Okay, that covers talent and time, what about money? What are the costs? That's pretty vague for this example, definitely. If I had chosen something else it would be better covered. Costs for potions, scrolls, and spell research are pretty explicit. If you look on the "potion list" page, in the upper left had quarter you will see the list III.H Miscellaneous Weapons <span style="font-size: 12px">(5)</span>. Result 63 - Hammer +3, Dwarven Thrower, GP Sale Value 15,000 gp. Here is the guidance for cost. Determine some percentage that is reasonable. This is the cost for not only the mundane hammer but also the incense, chanters, food during seclusion, &c. And, since it's a fancy hammer, allocate another month of time for the hammer to be forged once all of the special components have been delivered to the NPC dwarven master smith.</p><p></p><p>Therefore, you need a PC dwarven cleric, 11th level (18 Wis), two months of time, and 15,000 gp, rounding up. With one caveat, although with guidance, all explicitly by the rules of AD&D. </p><p></p><p>Is it as tidy and straight-forward as 3e? Certainly not. That the AD&D DMG needed serious editing is no news. But it's there. </p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">(1) - AD&D PHB, pg 14, Race Table II</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">(2) - AD&D DMG, pg 116, first column, eighth paragraph</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">(3) - AD&D UA, pg 8, Table II.A: Dwarves</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">(4) - AD&D DMG, pg 118, first column, fifth paragraph</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">(5) - AD&D DMG, pg 125, first column, Table III.H Miscellaneous Weapons</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Baron Opal II, post: 8479057, member: 6794067"] Seriously? Okay- Surely I'm not the only DM that allowed dwarven clerics when the table stated that they existed. [SIZE=3](1)[/SIZE] I surmise that they were "NPC only" because a dwarven cleric would never fail a Poison / Death saving throw. Notably, all such race / class combinations were clerics or druids. It seemed that Gary recognized that all races would have a faith, but didn't like them "on stage" for whatever reason. So, yes, let's presume a dwarven cleric for a moment. Now, the rules do say that the minimum clerical level is 11th for item enchanting. [SIZE=3](2)[/SIZE] I did indeed bend this for dwarven clerics at first, although later this restriction was restored when class and level limits were later adjusted in Unearthed Arcana [SIZE=3](3)[/SIZE]. At this point PC dwarven clerics were explicitly allowed. That's what I'm seeing. The cleric spends three weeks in seclusion and fasting, ritually cleanses the item, and then prays upon it until the god empowers the item. This should take 10-14 days on average. So plan on 5-6 weeks of down time for the cleric. And, since it needs to be said, clerics don't need [I]enchant an item[/I] they just follow the guidelines regarding item quality. Okay, that covers talent and time, what about money? What are the costs? That's pretty vague for this example, definitely. If I had chosen something else it would be better covered. Costs for potions, scrolls, and spell research are pretty explicit. If you look on the "potion list" page, in the upper left had quarter you will see the list III.H Miscellaneous Weapons [SIZE=3](5)[/SIZE]. Result 63 - Hammer +3, Dwarven Thrower, GP Sale Value 15,000 gp. Here is the guidance for cost. Determine some percentage that is reasonable. This is the cost for not only the mundane hammer but also the incense, chanters, food during seclusion, &c. And, since it's a fancy hammer, allocate another month of time for the hammer to be forged once all of the special components have been delivered to the NPC dwarven master smith. Therefore, you need a PC dwarven cleric, 11th level (18 Wis), two months of time, and 15,000 gp, rounding up. With one caveat, although with guidance, all explicitly by the rules of AD&D. Is it as tidy and straight-forward as 3e? Certainly not. That the AD&D DMG needed serious editing is no news. But it's there. [SIZE=3](1) - AD&D PHB, pg 14, Race Table II (2) - AD&D DMG, pg 116, first column, eighth paragraph (3) - AD&D UA, pg 8, Table II.A: Dwarves (4) - AD&D DMG, pg 118, first column, fifth paragraph (5) - AD&D DMG, pg 125, first column, Table III.H Miscellaneous Weapons[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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