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Message: <blockquote data-quote="W'rkncacnter" data-source="post: 9182213" data-attributes="member: 7033455">because neither of those are "typical" - action surge is a pretty limited resource (as opposed to, say, spell slots), and feats are optional.but sure, for argument's sake let's assume we have GWM. first, the sub-level 20 holy avenger fighter (which itself is absolutely not typical, but i am still a merciful god) - still no expanded crit range, +8 to hit since we're using GWM, so we hit on a 3 or higher. average of 66 damage for 2 attacks - hey, we killed one! and we got a bonus action from GWM to throw at another ogre, and our third attack, so...hey! we've finally killed more then one ogre in a round!...now what if we change out the holy avenger for a +3 sword? well, on average, 3 attacks gets us 65 damage - enough to kill the first ogre and let us belt one out at the second, which...can't kill it, no matter what we do.so even with GWM, before level 20, in order to kill more then one ogre in a round (without action surge - this is a typical round, remember?), we need a literal holy avenger. hm. ok. what about at level 20? no holy avenger, just a +3? well, first off, we have +9 to hit, which means we need a 2 to hit (which means our accuracy is basically at its peak for this specific enemy) - 3 attacks gets us to 72 damage (lower then that is only 48), which means we can throw out our bonus action GWM attack. 2 more attacks is 48 damage on average - VERY CLOSE to killing the second, but not quite.well, i was taking one of 2 assumptions - the first was a level 13-16 fighter with 20 strength and a holy avenger greatsword (later just a +3 greatsword to demonstrate how much work the 2d10 radiant was doing), and the second was a level 20 fighter with 20 strength and a +3 greatsword. really, i'd say i was being kind.yeah, my point exactly. i am a merciful god.13 damage per hit for 36 damage per round - there's technically a small chance of nat-1ing but eh.with GWM, with 3 attacks, with a +6 to hit against AC 11, you're dealing 56 damage per round.the ogre (probably) lives, bud.not a typical round, i see. but sure, let's double those attacks...that gets you to 112 damage. but wait! 3 attacks doesn't kill the first ogre, so we need the fourth to kill it, which means the second is actually only taking 37 damage on average.on average, you don't even take out 2.battlemaster maneuvers wouldn't be viable round-to-round...but sure, let's take a shot with polearm master. why not? +1 halberd, let's go.replacing 2d6 with 1d10 brings our initial 3 attacks to 52 damage. definitely not an improvement. the polearm master attack bumps this to 67 damage - so hey, our first ogre is dead!...and we're out of attacks. action surge? well, now we do 52 damage to the second ogre...and it's still alive. but he's way more screwed up then our second ogre from earlier, so yeah, definitely an improvement.edit: also, if anyone wants to know where my numbers are coming from, i'm just plugging them into <a href="https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/tools/dpr-calculator/" target="_blank">this dpr calculator</a> and giving out the results.</blockquote>

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