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Message: <blockquote data-quote="xechnao" data-source="post: 5104291" data-attributes="member: 58105">Yeah, I think I see what you mean. You say (video)gamey  means that the game's design presumes a very clear goal for the player -a goal that seems independent from anything but certain rules. The goal's obviousness is so high as the amount of rules the player has to figure out.I kind of agree with this but I mostly blame for gameness' feeling a gamey design of the rules -a design that wants to respect certain limits, such as the output of your computer display and the input of your keyboard -or a board where you place miniatures.  A fighter that is fast and has a good chance to successfully engage enemies before they can change their tactical position feels different than a fighter with initiative X and movement of y squares. Now, if rules are like the ones in the second case, the more rules there are the more difficult to adjust them beyond their apparent limitations. So, this is where I think what you say holds true.</blockquote>