NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5105239" data-attributes="member: 4937">Ok, please prove that position. Actually, very few definitions have been offered.  I count only two, which at the risk of greatly oversimplifying them, would be:Definition #1: It doesn't mean anything.  It's just a perjorative term.  This is by far the most common definition that was offered (first 4 responces for example) and anyone that has offered an alternative definition has been outright insulted.Definition #2: Player and moderator choice is heavily constrained by game design decisions which were made primarily to simplify either the design of the game or more directly to simplify how the game would play in practice.  That's vastly simplified, but of the only 4 or 5 posters who've claimed its something other than a meaningless pejorative term, that's one thread (of several) that they seem to have in common.This however doesn't prove the claim you made.  It could both be true that the term is primarily used pejoratively AND that it is well defined and understood by those that use it.  It could also be the case that there would exist a group of people who appreciate the positive aspects of very 'videogamey' elements that other denegrate, but that they refrain from using the term 'videogamey' because of the heavily negative conotations that they feel that its come to have.  It is pretty typical of debates that each side tries to frame the debate in its own language, choosing 'positive' sounding terms for its own position and 'negative' terms for the opposing position.  Agreed.And again, this is a strawman that doesn't address the claim it set to to prove.  You can say something and mean it as criticism without having at the heart of that reason merely that it is a common element between PnP RPG's and cRPG's.   In fact, I believe I can easily pick out the source of the criticism involved in saying an RPG is [too] 'videogamey', and namely that is that it has borrowed elements from a cRPG which - while they might be perfectly fine and even desirable traits in a cRPG - serve to destroy the very elements which most distinguished a PnP RPG from a cRPG and that its those very elements which the poster enjoyed in a PnP RPG.  Now, of course, if those elements were a major source of frustration to you in PnP RPGs, you'd welcome the adoption of proven design elements from cRPG's into the PnP RPG as a curative, but the fact that you'd do so does not mean that you'd necessarily adopt the language of critics in defense of those elements.  Instead you'd talk about things like 'reduced preparation time', 'speed of play', 'tactical depth' or whatever you think is the upside of the changes.  You might even be talking about the same changes.  The fact that two sides have adopted different descriptors isn't surprising.No, it isn't.</blockquote>

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