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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gimby" data-source="post: 5105373" data-attributes="member: 49875">Theres a further observation that can be made though - the existance of the "holy trinity" in its current form arises from the heritage of the MMO, easily tracable back to magic user/cleric/fighting man.  Its interesting to note that the Blizzard designers, for example, are now trying to shift from this paradigm a little (see some of the Cataclysm notes on reducing the disparity between roles a little and the design of the Northrend versus the Outland heroics).  My first introduction to recharge mechanics was the 3e Unearthed Arcana which had a system even closer to that found in WoW (indiviual variable cooldowns and so on).This is where I think the disconnect/annoyance comes to a certain extent.  Things which are not seen in videogames or not significant parts of them (see Healing Surges or actually Minions as explicitly one-hit creatures) are declared to be videogamey.  Things which have been part of D&D for a decade or more (see, roles) are declared to be videogamey.  1-1-1 diagonal movement and firecubes are declared to be videogamey when computers can near-perfectly handle gridless combat in realtime.  The rules as a whole are described to be videogamey or written to allow easy translation to a videogame when its the only AD&D-descended edition that *hasn't* been made into a videogame.  Thats kind of what makes me feel that the term is largely worthless.To address a post specifically, pretty much everything in Celebrim's post here: <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/272702-what-does-videogamey-mean-you-4.html#post5104948" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/272702-what-does-videogamey-mean-you-4.html#post5104948</a>has precedent in a variety of tabletop games.  AD&D I believe had a random dungeon generator and I think the T&T solos were meant to be played without a DM.  Pretty much any Effect based game has the "everyone is a spellcaster" effect (say M&M).  Points 4 and 5 seem to contradict each other, but I'd point to name level, or the explicit endgames you find in many indy games for the close ended design.  Point 5 covers really only a subset of cRPGs where the world scales with you, but even then the game maths tends to shatter hiliariously at higher levels in many of these too - see Morrowind or Oblivion for easy examples.  Even then, we see in D&D that higher level monsters will have, in general, a better AC, more hitpoints, more damage, better defenses - but again the whole concept of "levels" of player characters and their enemies derives from D&D.</blockquote>

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