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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8756635" data-attributes="member: 67338">there are multi problems (in scope, complexity and power but also in 'non combat' things) we all just have diffrent thresholds for what we want where. yupnobody has asked for a 20d12.  The closest I have seen is people asking for some heroic/legendary/martial ability useable 1/day equal to a 9th level spell... and even I only push for that as 'in a perfect world'yes and no... 4e martial exploits can be as abstract as any 3e or 5e fighter abilities... the abilioty to "sunder armor, lower the AC of target by 2" isn't really any more detailed then any spell. or "Leading the attack, 1/sr this action allows you to make a melee attack, if you hit the creature any body that attempts to hit the target before the end of your next turn (so you too next turn) gains +1d4 to hit" or "Warlords favor 1/sr this action allows you to make a melee attack and if you hit the creature grants advantage to the next attack targeting it" or "Tide of iron, as a bonus action before an attack the creature you are about to attack makes a Str save DC XX or be pushed 5ft, you then move into the space he just left and make your attack" or "Wolfpack tacktics you make an attack, but before or afterwards an ally adjacent to the target gets to disengage and move up to 1/2 there speed if they wish as a reaction" or "Sly flurish, make an attack if you hit add your cha mod as additional damage" or "Hit and run make an attack, if you move this turn the target you attacked can not use reactions against your movement" or "Furious Smash 1 creature in melee range make a Con save DC XX if they miss it they take weapon damage equual to your str or dex mod, the next creature to hit them before the end of your next turn deals bonus damage equal to your cha modifire" none of those massively make the game more complexyup... and thank you for using mana properly... so many people think of mana as magic, but in pistic island mythology it was called Warrior Mana, and was your ability as a warrior or leader to rise above the common man.and again, you can make both happy with options... you dont have to take the knock back ability if you don't want.and again, I don't want spells, I want martial exploits (some of witch may look like some spells)I don't think anyone wants thatyupyup... this is why I often say that to fix the figher you need to break up the fighterI agree, even most of my fixes are "I can atleast make it interesting not just attack attack attack... the hard part IS giving them other pillar supportthis is me 100%.... in 2e I would play a fighter hopeing to get to level 9 so I could be a leader of men (please don't end the campaign, I just got to my good part) and 4e (and 3.5 before with martial and Bo9S) gave me the ability to play a smart charasmatic martial hero</blockquote>

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