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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8757346" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yeah, well, I'm feeling like saying a similar sentence.You try that with a pickup truck then.&nbsp; Or a semi.&nbsp; Does a wheeled stone juggernaut weighing 40 tons have the same chance of being pushed back by the &quot;tide of iron&quot; as a 80 lb goblin?&nbsp;&nbsp; I mean I feel you are being deliberately obstinate and insulting here, because this isn't some next level difficult to understand concept.At first level they are just extraordinarily promising at fighting.&nbsp; I don't have a particular problem with something that says a 20th level fighter is capable of pushing back things with extraordinary force.&nbsp; I just have a problem with rules that pay no attention to the fiction, whether 'magic' or not.Which becomes exception based design, and again, introduces a new absolute rule.&nbsp; So now the golem can't be pushed by anything, even the god of strength, unless you write a new exception for the god of strength that says he can push things with 'don't need to vacate'.&nbsp; This way lies madness.All of which is post facto rationalization.&nbsp; The mechanic says what happens, so the fiction will just have to bend to accommodate no matter what.&nbsp; If you can't recognize that's a very different aesthetic, well, we just won't be able to have a productive discussion.More BS.&nbsp; Hits do and always have inflicted wounds. If it involves bending fiction to your will by performing the move, or is balanced by limited access to some metagame currency (slots per day, rechargeable points) then regardless of what you color it as, it is a spell-like mechanic.&nbsp; It is mechanics we are talking about here.This isn't even a rebuttal.&nbsp; High level characters in my game move beyond action movie physics to straight up superhero physics.&nbsp; It's entirely possible to build a fighter that can run down a horse while carrying a refrigerator on your back without even making that your characters schtick.&nbsp; It would just be one of those things you can do.&nbsp;&nbsp; But while that is beyond normal, there is no spell-like mechanic involve.&nbsp; You don't have to ever activate your movement speed, you just have it.&nbsp; You don't have to activate your encumbrance, you just have.&nbsp;&nbsp; If on the other hand the player had to declare, &quot;I'm using one of my 3/day Stalwart Charge&quot;, then that would be a spell mechanic even if the color of it wasn't magical.&nbsp; This is not hard to understand.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8757346, member: 4937"] Yeah, well, I'm feeling like saying a similar sentence. You try that with a pickup truck then. Or a semi. Does a wheeled stone juggernaut weighing 40 tons have the same chance of being pushed back by the "tide of iron" as a 80 lb goblin? I mean I feel you are being deliberately obstinate and insulting here, because this isn't some next level difficult to understand concept. At first level they are just extraordinarily promising at fighting. I don't have a particular problem with something that says a 20th level fighter is capable of pushing back things with extraordinary force. I just have a problem with rules that pay no attention to the fiction, whether 'magic' or not. Which becomes exception based design, and again, introduces a new absolute rule. So now the golem can't be pushed by anything, even the god of strength, unless you write a new exception for the god of strength that says he can push things with 'don't need to vacate'. This way lies madness. All of which is post facto rationalization. The mechanic says what happens, so the fiction will just have to bend to accommodate no matter what. If you can't recognize that's a very different aesthetic, well, we just won't be able to have a productive discussion. More BS. Hits do and always have inflicted wounds. If it involves bending fiction to your will by performing the move, or is balanced by limited access to some metagame currency (slots per day, rechargeable points) then regardless of what you color it as, it is a spell-like mechanic. It is mechanics we are talking about here. This isn't even a rebuttal. High level characters in my game move beyond action movie physics to straight up superhero physics. It's entirely possible to build a fighter that can run down a horse while carrying a refrigerator on your back without even making that your characters schtick. It would just be one of those things you can do. But while that is beyond normal, there is no spell-like mechanic involve. You don't have to ever activate your movement speed, you just have it. You don't have to activate your encumbrance, you just have. If on the other hand the player had to declare, "I'm using one of my 3/day Stalwart Charge", then that would be a spell mechanic even if the color of it wasn't magical. This is not hard to understand. [/QUOTE]

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