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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8761962" data-attributes="member: 67338">same you seem more and more to just be picking and picking to try to 'get points' somehowI feel the sameyou didn't understand mine. I did NOT mention or even hint at real world religions... you in response named 2.  I didn't make it at all about religion YOU DID.my response is clear DON'T TURN TALK ABOUT MAGIC IN THE GAME INTO ONE ABOUT REAL WORLD BELIFE AND RELIGION... no real world religion that I know of believe you can cast magic missile or fireball.you tried to turn a very clear statement into a religious argument.sure there are I talk about them all the time. I think you should have both (or well 3 but not important) options on level up.the system tells youagain it's not ME saying so it's teh system.  Come and Get it wasn't... it was a martial Exploit, Green FLame Blade is it is an arcane spellthe word obviously is the problem... it's YOU making a choice and deciding we must all agree.I see no reason that "Once per day/long rest you automatically hit with an attack" has to be supernatural at all (again it seems to be the robin hood abilitywrong, it's how the fiction handles it that matters, those lables are the fiction.A jedi uses the force to pull a weapon from an enemy's handHarry Potter casts a spell disarming his opponentConan slams his axe down disarming his opponent1 was the force, 1 was magic, 1 was training, same effectI mean sure, but no one is suggesting it is... I don't understand this line at all.but if you had 'a number of times per day equal to your prof you can make a jump and go three times your normal max' special option a fighter could take that doesn't mean they are casting jump.he hits... he keeps hitting he doesn't miss with his shots... you said any 'auto hit' ability would be magicyes... he doesn't missyesno he isn't magic he is a protagonist. in the narrative he doesn't miss. he doesn't have a 'chance of missing' he always gets the shaft and splits the arrow.davy crocket and robin hood and Odysseus don't use magic... they do bigger then life things (or batman or hawkeye in more modern stories)no magic... just a hero protagonist training and smart and able to do things amazingmost likely not... I mean if they could why would they need those props and FX?again, we know in the real world it is staged, and tricks... but we buy into the story of the wrestlers doing these things.  All I am asking is that we do the same with fighters. davy crocket and robin hood and Odysseus don't use magic... they do bigger then life things (or batman or hawkeye in more modern stories)no magic... just a hero protagonist training and smart and able to do things amazingnope... I do not see EITHER as a spell.  I see it as abstract mechanic vs concreate mechanic but if it isn't magic it isn't magic...in Call of Cthulhu and some other games there is a roll you can make to rewrite the scene... it isn't magic, your character isn't rewriting the scene (ala bill and ted saying to remember the trash can) it is just the way it always has been... no magicyou asked why everyone can't do everything... because the game is set up so that there are silos of abilities. barbarians rage, not rangers or fighters. if you want to rage you multi into barbarian (or take a multi class feat or something) that is what I am asking for, to increase the siloed abilities of the fighter.yes like your bear trap power would be an abstraction.... it wouldn't be 'magically make a trap' it's 'you had the trap' just like if you want to rage you take a level in barbarian... again you jump from in game to out of game at break neck speeds to try to make your points... I don't think you are doing it well.You asked why not anyone could rage. I explained why.yes and no I am trying to show your ideal of how D&D works isn't how D&D worked in any edition I ever played, so i don't understand why you are arguing against increasing thee silo of fighter abilities.I am showing that we have silo of abilities in classes. They are NOT based on in game fiction (or no action surge, anyone coulld sneak attack, anyone could rage) so the entire argument falls apart.</blockquote>

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