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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tvknight415" data-source="post: 5799259" data-attributes="member: 40450">Why not only have just the four basic classes (Fighter, Cleric, Magic-User, Rogue), and then package the "sub-classes" as options at a certain level, or via options available at the start.  I like the paladin/knight/avenger concept, and I think I'd add ranger and barbarian to the options on the fighter.  I'm a proponent of modifying the vancian system so that casters can cast without memorizing or praying for specific spells at the start of the day, but rather just having to spend an hour a day in study or prayer or meditation or what not (type is chosen at 1st, and represents the differences between sorcerer and wizard, or cleric/favored soul).  At higher levels, offer the opportunity to specialize in schools of magic, or take the druidic path.My classes with options during advancement would look something like:Fighter--Paladin (limited clerical and special abilities)--Ranger (limited druidic and rogue abilities)--Barbarian (gain berserk rage)Cleric (prayer or innate spell ability chosen at start)--Druid (lose turning, gain wild shape and additional spells)Wizard (study or innate spell ability chosen at start)--School specialists (invoker, transmuter, necromancer)--Elementalists--Wild MagesRogue--Assassin (gain specialized skills)--Swashbuckler (gain combat improvements)--Bard (gain limited magic and musical ability)--Mystic (gain martial arts by giving up armor and most weapons)For Paladins, Rangers, and Bards, they gain spellcasting/turning ability at 1st level cleric/druid/wizard ability, and increases level-for-level (if a fighter becomes a paladin at 9th level, when he's 13th level, he'd have 5th level clerical abilities.  The option to take a sub-class could only happen at 7th or higher level, and come with some restrictions to offset their gains (paladin's code, ranger requiring light armor, mystic forswearing armor & weapons, invokers reducing the effectiveness of non-specialty school, etc.).Multi-classed characters could take sub-class paths, but only once they were level 7 in that particular class (so, to have a paladin/invoker would require at least 7 levels of fighter and 7 levels of wizard).  Muti-classing could only occur between the base classes (no barbarian/rangers, but barbarian/cleric is okay).  Multi-classed spellcasters stack their spellcasting class(es) with any sub-class casting (so, if a fighter 7/cleric 3 decided to go down the paladin sub-class, he'd have cleric 4 casting ability).I wouldn't necessarily go towards the race=class of Basic D&D, or limit what races can be what class (1/2E) but I would include some drawbacks to certain race/class combinations.  For instance, I'd put in a 5% chance of arcane spell failure for a dwarf wizard due to their natural magic resistance, which can't be offset by any skills/feats/magic items, but would stack with an armor or shield penalty.I'd also streamline skills and feats.  I'd have skills simply be trained or untrained, and at character level, one could either add a new skill or get a bonus to an existing skill (like 1/2E proficiencies).   Once a skill is trained, the roll is modified by level minus level the skill was first taken at.  I'd eliminate feats and instead give bonuses to either skills or combat maneuvers.  Some of the feat would be moved into the basic skill check (ride check to use horse as a shield instead of mounted combat feat) or as a combat maneuver (power attack).</blockquote>

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