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<blockquote data-quote="Badapple" data-source="post: 5054397" data-attributes="member: 71811">4e (but really this applies to 3.x to a lesser extent) doesn't do combat without minis and grid.&nbsp; Simply too much movement based powers and effects, and needing to know exact placement of battle participants.&nbsp; I was able to play 2e and older pretty well without minis and grid, but wouldn't dream of doing so with newer editions.&nbsp;I have to disagree with the OPs third example.&nbsp; I've found in my play experience that 4e does attrition (in the form of carefully hoarding resources) much better than 3e for most charcacters.&nbsp; Fighters, barbarians, rangers, rogues, etc in 3e had pretty much no resources to hoard and carefully watch, maybe a barbarian rage or a magic item use but really not a big deal... now they have surges and dailies and magic items with daily powers.&nbsp; In our 3e games, healing wands could heal a party up to full hp after every battle so the only resources a party spent were spells memorized (which correlates to daily powers in 4e).&nbsp; In 3e the mop up phase of a battle was tedious, in fact any battle with a monster that only did hp damage was tedious, since the only drain on the party was hp loss, which was nullified by healing wands after the battle.&nbsp; In 4e even the mop up phase of a battle contains some risk, because the last couple attacks of the surrounded and dying monsters could cost a player a precious additional healing surge.&nbsp; With 4e no matter what class I play I'm constantly thinking of how many healing surges I have left vs. how much more I think I might still encounter that day.&nbsp; Tension gets pretty high when I'm low on surges...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Badapple, post: 5054397, member: 71811"] 4e (but really this applies to 3.x to a lesser extent) doesn't do combat without minis and grid. Simply too much movement based powers and effects, and needing to know exact placement of battle participants. I was able to play 2e and older pretty well without minis and grid, but wouldn't dream of doing so with newer editions. I have to disagree with the OPs third example. I've found in my play experience that 4e does attrition (in the form of carefully hoarding resources) much better than 3e for most charcacters. Fighters, barbarians, rangers, rogues, etc in 3e had pretty much no resources to hoard and carefully watch, maybe a barbarian rage or a magic item use but really not a big deal... now they have surges and dailies and magic items with daily powers. In our 3e games, healing wands could heal a party up to full hp after every battle so the only resources a party spent were spells memorized (which correlates to daily powers in 4e). In 3e the mop up phase of a battle was tedious, in fact any battle with a monster that only did hp damage was tedious, since the only drain on the party was hp loss, which was nullified by healing wands after the battle. In 4e even the mop up phase of a battle contains some risk, because the last couple attacks of the surrounded and dying monsters could cost a player a precious additional healing surge. With 4e no matter what class I play I'm constantly thinking of how many healing surges I have left vs. how much more I think I might still encounter that day. Tension gets pretty high when I'm low on surges... [/QUOTE]

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