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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5055836" data-attributes="member: 82106">Now see, in the game I run the opposite is true. The wizard was retired a while back to make room for a player that wanted to run a Dragon Sorcerer. The sorc is an excellent striker and a fun PC to have in the party, but tactically it doesn't hold a candle to the wizard. The players were always pretty dubious about the wizard because she didn't punch out much damage in general and players always seem to remember big damage. The funniest thing is now after a couple of adventures without the wizard they want her back!You'll tend to see this. The players overlook the benefits of the wizard (or other controllers) but if you talk to the DM you quickly learn how much that wizard does for the party in so many ways. The other problem with controllers is simply again that players don't appreciate control as a concept. The wizard is handed some really nice control capabilities right from level 1 but 90% of players spoil it by selecting powers based on how much damage they do. Instead of taking Icy Terrain they are sucked in by the damage output of Force Orb. All you end up with is a substandard striker. The failure with wizards then is more clearly in the presentation than in the actual class itself. Pre-AP they are pretty narrow in build options but the good options are way good. It just takes a pretty tactically savvy player to understand what makes a good wizard.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5055836, member: 82106"] Now see, in the game I run the opposite is true. The wizard was retired a while back to make room for a player that wanted to run a Dragon Sorcerer. The sorc is an excellent striker and a fun PC to have in the party, but tactically it doesn't hold a candle to the wizard. The players were always pretty dubious about the wizard because she didn't punch out much damage in general and players always seem to remember big damage. The funniest thing is now after a couple of adventures without the wizard they want her back! You'll tend to see this. The players overlook the benefits of the wizard (or other controllers) but if you talk to the DM you quickly learn how much that wizard does for the party in so many ways. The other problem with controllers is simply again that players don't appreciate control as a concept. The wizard is handed some really nice control capabilities right from level 1 but 90% of players spoil it by selecting powers based on how much damage they do. Instead of taking Icy Terrain they are sucked in by the damage output of Force Orb. All you end up with is a substandard striker. The failure with wizards then is more clearly in the presentation than in the actual class itself. Pre-AP they are pretty narrow in build options but the good options are way good. It just takes a pretty tactically savvy player to understand what makes a good wizard. [/QUOTE]

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