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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5056353" data-attributes="member: 2011">I did not state that they were not necessary. That is your inference from what was posted.It is easy to see though that spells like Mage Armor and Bear's Endurance could take the place of many necessary magic items in 3E.No such spells exist in 4E. That's a fact. Close your eyes and go &quot;la la la la&quot; all you want, but spells could take the place of many necessary items in 3E. And that is one reason that magic items did not have to be handed out like candy as much in 3E. Sure the items existed, but that does not mean that all DMs were forced by the game system to hand them out.And yes, a Fighter is as useless in 4E as he was in 3E at higher levels without his magic items. One difference is that in 3E, Antimagic Field did force the player of the Fighter to not have his items on occasion and in 4E, that never happens. Another difference is that any weapon could be picked up and the Cleric could cast Greater Magic Weapon off a scroll on it (ditto with Magic Vestment and armors/shields) and the 3E Fighter was good to go.Since that spell no longer exists, the higher level 4E fighter HAS to have his magic items or he will be crying in the corner.Your POV on this aspect of the discussion is inaccurate.I'd sooner believe you if you told me your cat poops adamantium nuggets. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Cool. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5056353, member: 2011"] I did not state that they were not necessary. That is your inference from what was posted. It is easy to see though that spells like Mage Armor and Bear's Endurance could take the place of many necessary magic items in 3E. No such spells exist in 4E. That's a fact. Close your eyes and go "la la la la" all you want, but spells could take the place of many necessary items in 3E. And that is one reason that magic items did not have to be handed out like candy as much in 3E. Sure the items existed, but that does not mean that all DMs were forced by the game system to hand them out. And yes, a Fighter is as useless in 4E as he was in 3E at higher levels without his magic items. One difference is that in 3E, Antimagic Field did force the player of the Fighter to not have his items on occasion and in 4E, that never happens. Another difference is that any weapon could be picked up and the Cleric could cast Greater Magic Weapon off a scroll on it (ditto with Magic Vestment and armors/shields) and the 3E Fighter was good to go. Since that spell no longer exists, the higher level 4E fighter HAS to have his magic items or he will be crying in the corner. Your POV on this aspect of the discussion is inaccurate. I'd sooner believe you if you told me your cat poops adamantium nuggets. ;) Cool. :cool: [/QUOTE]

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