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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jhaelen" data-source="post: 5056423" data-attributes="member: 46713">I call bull. First: 4e has fewer slots than 3e. In 3e every character needed about five magic items to meet the expected power level in 4e it's three items. For a low-magic setting neither edition would have an advantage in that regard if it wasn't for 4e's DMG2 option of using inherent bonused.Second: Your example of the Cloak of Elvenkind is intentionally misleading. What did a 3e player do if he wanted to have a bonus to hide checks and all three saving throws?He used a vest of resistance (torso slot - which no longer exists in 4e) and a cloak of elvenkind. Or even better: He visited the enchanter of his choice and paid him to add the saving throw bonuses to his cloak of elven-kind (which using the MIC rules isn't even more expensive than both items separately).Incidentally that's also the solution to the 'hard choice' regarding the throat slot: Just have someone enchant your amulet of natural armor to also grant a con bonus. Again: this does not even increase cost!Saying that 4e magic items are more powerful than 3e magic items is plain wrong. I don't think there's a single example where a 4e item is better than its 3e equivalent. There's also tons of 3e magic items that don't exist in 4e because they would be the equivalent of 4e artifacts.In 3e magic users may not need +x implements, but they tried to get metamagic rods as soon as they were affordable. Other items were highly sought after by spellcasters: Ways to avoid attacks of opportunity, make concentration checks, etc.In 3e you also had to be prepared to counter a lot more effects than in 4e. Remember the golf bag of weapons? Everyone needed to have ways to deal with grappling monsters and the more numerous conditions. This made up a significant portion of a spell caster's repertoire. If you didn't prepare to deal with certain effects you were _hosed_:paralysis, attribute drain, level drain, long time stuns, etc.In conclusion: Regarding the requirement for magic items 4e doesn't do it less well than 3e. It's either slightly better or _a lot_ 'better' (if you're using the DMG2 inherent bonuses).There definitely _are_ things that 4e doesn't do well (and I think they've already all been mentioned in this thread) but this is not one of them.</blockquote>

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