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<blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 5059569" data-attributes="member: 82504">In martial arts we are trained to use timing and energy and spirit.&nbsp; The first and the last of that list are not overtly physical... make of it what you will but thinking combat is all muscle made no sense to me when I first heard of it in D&amp;D, my dad was in martial arts and even though I wasnt trained in anything at age 15, it still sounded way out of sink.A charism, is a divine gift, for the religious it may include allowing the supernal to guide your hand it is also an expression of spirit and emotional energies, it generally includes mental creativity and deceptiveness... Spirit bolsters strength...&nbsp; (in real life I have seen them measure the effects striking with passion is like hitting half again stronger) How could that not be useful for fighting with? Your bard should feel fully justified.Wisdom includes a heavy dose of perception it also includes discipline (which is used to improve training so that your tried and true moves have precision) and isnt it central to analysing the intent of other beings .... does there seem like any form of conflict that wouldnt deeply value those? Intellect includes fast thinking (probably the timing I mentioned)... again does there really seem anything but arm wrestling where out-thinking and out-guessing your enemies couldnt be made central?As I said every cat can be skinned different ways, you are still using your strength and the speed of movement it grants but a style can emphasize different routes to success.Useful in narraration... it isnt just &quot;I hit it with my sword&quot;hmm interesting... The idea of having one stat for to hit and another for damage was also bandied about.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Garthanos, post: 5059569, member: 82504"] In martial arts we are trained to use timing and energy and spirit. The first and the last of that list are not overtly physical... make of it what you will but thinking combat is all muscle made no sense to me when I first heard of it in D&D, my dad was in martial arts and even though I wasnt trained in anything at age 15, it still sounded way out of sink. A charism, is a divine gift, for the religious it may include allowing the supernal to guide your hand it is also an expression of spirit and emotional energies, it generally includes mental creativity and deceptiveness... Spirit bolsters strength... (in real life I have seen them measure the effects striking with passion is like hitting half again stronger) How could that not be useful for fighting with? Your bard should feel fully justified. Wisdom includes a heavy dose of perception it also includes discipline (which is used to improve training so that your tried and true moves have precision) and isnt it central to analysing the intent of other beings .... does there seem like any form of conflict that wouldnt deeply value those? Intellect includes fast thinking (probably the timing I mentioned)... again does there really seem anything but arm wrestling where out-thinking and out-guessing your enemies couldnt be made central? As I said every cat can be skinned different ways, you are still using your strength and the speed of movement it grants but a style can emphasize different routes to success. Useful in narraration... it isnt just "I hit it with my sword" hmm interesting... The idea of having one stat for to hit and another for damage was also bandied about. [/QUOTE]

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