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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Valiant" data-source="post: 3904090" data-attributes="member: 54792">Thats the outcome of every group that overplayed the game and eventually wanted variety, not a result of a rule or even advice in the DMG.  Honestly, I don't think Gygax new how people would continue playing the game as long as they did.  As players we weren't allowed to see the DMG until we were trained as DM (for me that was about 2 years before I saw the inside of the DMG).  Even today 2 of our  players who have never DMed (and have no desire to) have yet to read the DMG.  And thats after 15 + years (yes they are wives).  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />   In any event, the freedom the DM has in OD&D and AD&D to have a player role what he wants when he wants (d20, d100, d6 etc. up down sideways, tables, no tables) based on his objective opinion of your chances (rather then some concrete rules) makes your ability to predict your outcome very difficult (even for the experianced DM/player)  its his game not yours...the DM is in complete control.  Thats the brilliance of the game, it stays exciting because there aren't hard and fast rules for everything, not despite it.  Thats something the creators of 3E didn't understand IMO.The only exception to this is the To Hit tables and some of the saves (vs. poison, magic etc.) which most of us have memorized...which sucks, but its still fun to play........anyhow, knowing your chances to hit an orc or some zero level gaurd in chain isn't the same as not knowing your chances to climb a tree suddenly to avoid wolves....there's no "role your climb" garbage with a stack of modifiers, its:DM: "hey Joe, role this d100 to see if your dog food or not" .  Player (experianced DM): "What am I rolling for, are you considering I have a 14 strength and 14 dex; how much is this chain armor going to effect my chances, I'm 6th level so that will help me right?  When I DM I'd factor that in....." DM: "shut up and role, the wolves are closing in".  When the player feels panic and can focus on playing rather then calculating you have a good game. In 3E the player would know his base chance to climb (having calculated out his pluses and minuses...the DM is hardly needed (the only mystery is, "is this tree harder or more difficult to climb then the average and what secret modifier has the DM added).  3Es resolution system may be more simple and concrete, but it takes the freak'n spirit out of the game.  Its dry as toast I tell you.PS one other thing, the freedom to figure out odds by the DM on the fly makes for a much quicker and fluid game (and as I stated above unpredictable).  This is all in stark contrast to 3E.</blockquote>

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