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<blockquote data-quote="The Shadow" data-source="post: 5996835" data-attributes="member: 16760">That's the Japanese for you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; I recall how stunned and disappointed I was at the end of an anime whose name escapes me at the moment, when the hero uses the swords of ultimate good and evil that had been the quest object the whole time together to defeat the Realio Trulio 'Bad' Guy that showed up.&nbsp; (I say 'bad', but apparently both good and evil opposed him, though they'd been fighting each other tooth and nail up til then, and the evil side was plenty evil.)&nbsp; What?! Different cultural assumptions, that's for sure.Oh, sure.&nbsp; The Verenestra pact doesn't seem actively evil.&nbsp; It just doesn't seem very... nice. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I could see a good person entering a pact with a fey as a desperate attempt to save his village, the people he loves, etc. ... but as he gets deeper in, it's hard to see him remaining pure of heart.&nbsp; Could make for a great story!I could also see good beings, lesser than gods, empowering mortals.&nbsp; I just have trouble seeing it coming in the form of a pact.&nbsp; It just feels... off.&nbsp; A pact just isn't a very wholehearted commitment, you know?&nbsp; Both sides meet their contractual obligations and go about their lives otherwise.Huh!&nbsp; Here's a thought.&nbsp; Maybe the forces of celestial good sometimes try to 'tempt' someone to their side, so to speak.&nbsp; In other words, a Celestial pact isn't really intended for good-aligned people at all, but for neutrals.&nbsp; &quot;You want power.&nbsp; Fine, you may have some, at the price of saving orphans, feeding the hungry, and so forth, without accepting reward.&quot;&nbsp; The hope on the celestial side is that (along with accomplishing good deeds) the person will find it grows on them and eventually come wholeheartedly to accept it as a way of life.&nbsp; (The idea of a warlock/paladin is seriously bizarre, but in this scenario might actually make sense!&nbsp; Though it would make more narrative sense to me for the warlock levels to get traded in.)Heck, maybe in some nations, heinous crimes can be atoned for by accepting a Celestial pact.&nbsp; &quot;As long as you abide by the terms, you don't get executed.&nbsp; Sounds good, right?&nbsp; Believe me, you'll be working off your crimes.&quot;The only trouble is, as I mentioned before, many of the invocations will need to be *seriously* refluffed.&nbsp; This shouldn't be excessively hard...&nbsp; Baleful Utterance could become something closer to Holy Word.&nbsp; But it's still work - for example, the mannerisms of each invocation would have to be looked at.&nbsp; I don't see cosmic goodness inclining people to OCD. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />EDIT:&nbsp; Though perhaps the mannerisms come not so much from cosmic goodness, as dealing with the burden of an outside power?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Shadow, post: 5996835, member: 16760"] That's the Japanese for you. :) I recall how stunned and disappointed I was at the end of an anime whose name escapes me at the moment, when the hero uses the swords of ultimate good and evil that had been the quest object the whole time together to defeat the Realio Trulio 'Bad' Guy that showed up. (I say 'bad', but apparently both good and evil opposed him, though they'd been fighting each other tooth and nail up til then, and the evil side was plenty evil.) What?! Different cultural assumptions, that's for sure. Oh, sure. The Verenestra pact doesn't seem actively evil. It just doesn't seem very... nice. :) I could see a good person entering a pact with a fey as a desperate attempt to save his village, the people he loves, etc. ... but as he gets deeper in, it's hard to see him remaining pure of heart. Could make for a great story! I could also see good beings, lesser than gods, empowering mortals. I just have trouble seeing it coming in the form of a pact. It just feels... off. A pact just isn't a very wholehearted commitment, you know? Both sides meet their contractual obligations and go about their lives otherwise. Huh! Here's a thought. Maybe the forces of celestial good sometimes try to 'tempt' someone to their side, so to speak. In other words, a Celestial pact isn't really intended for good-aligned people at all, but for neutrals. "You want power. Fine, you may have some, at the price of saving orphans, feeding the hungry, and so forth, without accepting reward." The hope on the celestial side is that (along with accomplishing good deeds) the person will find it grows on them and eventually come wholeheartedly to accept it as a way of life. (The idea of a warlock/paladin is seriously bizarre, but in this scenario might actually make sense! Though it would make more narrative sense to me for the warlock levels to get traded in.) Heck, maybe in some nations, heinous crimes can be atoned for by accepting a Celestial pact. "As long as you abide by the terms, you don't get executed. Sounds good, right? Believe me, you'll be working off your crimes." The only trouble is, as I mentioned before, many of the invocations will need to be *seriously* refluffed. This shouldn't be excessively hard... Baleful Utterance could become something closer to Holy Word. But it's still work - for example, the mannerisms of each invocation would have to be looked at. I don't see cosmic goodness inclining people to OCD. :) EDIT: Though perhaps the mannerisms come not so much from cosmic goodness, as dealing with the burden of an outside power? [/QUOTE]

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