Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5836776" data-attributes="member: 87792">That's strictly and provably false.The 3.5 Rogue gets 8+Int Mod skill points per level out of 36.  The 4e Rogue gets 6 trained skills out of 17, including stealth and thievery.  Yes, it appears the 3.5 rogue has more skill points.  But let's look at those 4e skills. Stealth: Does the work of both Hide and Move Silently.Thievery:  Does the work of Open Locks, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand.So the two automatic skills the 4e rogue is trained in do the work of five 3.5 rogue skills.  And that's five pretty essential ones to the rogue's ability to be a rogue.  Let's add two more textbook roguish/scouty skills to the list.Perception:  Does the work of Spot, Listen, and Search.  Essential for any scout so the rogue had better be trained in at least two of them in 3.5.Athletics: replaces three skills.  Climb, Jump, and Swim.   Assume you didn't care about swim.  Not that it matters.  Climb and  jump are both on the physical rogue skill list...And my 4e rogue still has two skills left over, some of which (due to the condensing of the skill lists) have multiple functions in 3.5 or even Pathfinder.  The 4e rogue simply has more skill versatility than the 3.5 one.  And that's before you get into utility powers.  At heroic tier you get three utility powers - one at level 2, one at level 6, and one at level 10.  And I will happily pit three utility powers against five rogue tricks from Pathfinder.  Also I can pick up ritual caster for a feat, or another skill for a feat (which I will only do after getting multiclass feats which normally grant me a skill and another ability).  The thief gets a seventh trained skill, and can choose tricks in addition to utility powers - one of which makes him a better sneak than simply having maxed out stealth would, and another gives him a climb speed (making climb walls redundant).The 3.5 rogue is better than the 4e rogue at one thing.  Combat.  The way Sneak attack scales and can be used with TWF they can make monster-sushi in a way the 4e rogue can only dream of.  As for being a skill monkey, the 4e rogue is up there with the PF Beginners Box rogue - without there being quite such vast roguish areas outside the rules like picking pockets (unless it's filed under Disable Device - I don't have my PFBB players rulebook to hand).That's unless by versatility you meant fine detail customisability.  That having a rogue who can't pick pockets effectively is meaningful to you, or one who can spot but can't listen when scouting.Keep going and you'll approach 4e.  Fewer, simpler skills, and some skill monkey classes.  4e has 17 skills, all of them useful for adventuring.</blockquote>

Verification