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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7230375" data-attributes="member: 29398">I'd rather find a way to keep 'em that frail all the way through. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />More seriously, your list in post 1 might be overkill.&nbsp; Some things I'd look at, mostly stolen from 1e, are:- have PC hit point accrual slow down dramatically at about 10th level by halving the die roll (so Fighters roll d5, Clerics d4, Rogues d3 etc.) and having Con bonus not apply to these half-die rolls- bring back level drain- let 'em have reasonably good stats to start with (intentionally high array or generous rolling system) then do away with ASIs completely- make magic riskier - teleport errors, greater chance of interruption during casting with sometimes-painful consequences, etc., and see next line:- bring back item saves (someone already mentioned this) but also make magic unstable enough that if an enchanted item breaks bad things or weird things or whatever can happen- get rid of all ranged healing and make touch-healing during combat risky enough that people will think twice before doing it, to put an end to whack-a-mole combats- harshly cut back on healing via rests, and if this means they need a full-time healer in the party so be it- and if all of this plus your other changes make one or more classes no longer viable, be prepared to drop 'em.Lanefan</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7230375, member: 29398"] I'd rather find a way to keep 'em that frail all the way through. :) More seriously, your list in post 1 might be overkill. Some things I'd look at, mostly stolen from 1e, are: - have PC hit point accrual slow down dramatically at about 10th level by halving the die roll (so Fighters roll d5, Clerics d4, Rogues d3 etc.) and having Con bonus [B]not[/B] apply to these half-die rolls - bring back level drain - let 'em have reasonably good stats to start with (intentionally high array or generous rolling system) then do away with ASIs completely - make magic riskier - teleport errors, greater chance of interruption during casting with sometimes-painful consequences, etc., and see next line: - bring back item saves (someone already mentioned this) but also make magic unstable enough that if an enchanted item breaks bad things or weird things or whatever can happen - get rid of all ranged healing and make touch-healing during combat risky enough that people will think twice before doing it, to put an end to whack-a-mole combats - harshly cut back on healing via rests, and if this means they need a full-time healer in the party so be it - and if all of this plus your other changes make one or more classes no longer viable, be prepared to drop 'em. Lanefan [/QUOTE]

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